Now that the Skyshield craze is really kicking off, how would/do you feel about playing against them?.
For those that dont know, the Skyshield as its a Fortification, gives a 3+ cover save, its huge so it can give that save to almost all of your army, it cant actually be destroyed and only costs 75pts. Couple that with things like stealth or holo fields or the tau thing that gives +1 cover and you have half of peoples armies with a 2+ cover save blasting away from on and around these things.
I dont mind but I dont mind playing against anything and I like the challenge although I will be using one myself at my next tourny!
I seriously thinking of using on myself due to lack of terrain these days. Great for drones and broadsides. Heck it's just a great all around Tau lovly upgrade.
It does benefit deep striking and shooty armies. I think getting a +3 cover save under the legs, and possible +3 cover on top is a bit good.
Honestly I ould play against it, but it honly benefits certain armies really. However Tau cn probably fit their entire army under the legs and on top.
All I can say is focus fire for silly leg hugging tactics.
As I've yet to actually play against a "castle" list, I would give it a try. Whether or not the match was worth playing or simply ridiculous would affect my attitude towards them.
Kind of strange though how there's no way to destroy them. Even the Fortress of Redemption is fair game...
-Kur'os
My local gaming club has banned them in tournaments, although they say it's due to the size of it. Of course there are a good deal of things nowadays which ignore cover so I'd play against one with my Tau army, although I probably wouldn't stand a chance with my Chaos as I don't have any Helldrakes, but I'd probably still play against them. If they became really popular down my way I'd probably just get my own so my opponent wouldn't get to keep the advantage to themselves.
Quote from: Cammerz on August 28, 2013, 08:20:37 AM
My local gaming club has banned them in tournaments, although they say it's due to the size of it. Of course there are a good deal of things nowadays which ignore cover so I'd play against one with my Tau army, although I probably wouldn't stand a chance with my Chaos as I don't have any Helldrakes, but I'd probably still play against them. If they became really popular down my way I'd probably just get my own so my opponent wouldn't get to keep the advantage to themselves.
People use them for the 4+ invulerable save. More than the cover save. Also for a deep striking platform. Which is great for daemons.
Against? I have 2 words for you... Deathstrike Missle.
Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass, but could get around it.
I too have considered it. It provides a nice anchor point for the army and giving a secure position drop reinforcements in.
Slight question though, if you can control it I.E. wipe the enemy off it and secure it yourself. Could you use it for non scatter deep striking even if you didn't pay for it?
Quote from: Chris on August 28, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Against? I have 2 words for you... Deathstrike Missle.
Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass, but could get around it.
I too have considered it. It provides a nice anchor point for the army and giving a secure position drop reinforcements in.
Slight question though, if you can control it I.E. wipe the enemy off it and secure it yourself. Could you use it for non scatter deep striking even if you didn't pay for it?
The non scatter only works if the barricade is down and not providing the 4+ invulnerable save. What you can do is get units under the platform and lower the barricade getting rid of the 4+ invulnerable.
Did you really say the death strike missile. Good luck with that.
Quote from: Chris on August 28, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Against? I have 2 words for you... Deathstrike Missle.
Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass, but could get around it.
I too have considered it. It provides a nice anchor point for the army and giving a secure position drop reinforcements in.
Slight question though, if you can control it I.E. wipe the enemy off it and secure it yourself. Could you use it for non scatter deep striking even if you didn't pay for it?
Yes. Fortifications are considered terrain, so they work for anybody. I think situations where the enemy takes control of it are going to be extremely rare, but if it happens, then yes. I believe there is a rule somewhere that you can only change its configuration if you have a model in base contact and the enemy does not, so it's not trivial to do.
Soooooo, what happens if a Vindicaire Assassin fires his shield-breaker round at something protected by the skyshield? Is just that model now forbidden from taking an invulnerable save? Could the vindicaire shoot the skyshield itself and remove all the invulnerable saves?
Quote from: knightperson on August 28, 2013, 09:44:41 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 28, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Against? I have 2 words for you... Deathstrike Missle.
Honestly, it would be a pain in the ass, but could get around it.
I too have considered it. It provides a nice anchor point for the army and giving a secure position drop reinforcements in.
Slight question though, if you can control it I.E. wipe the enemy off it and secure it yourself. Could you use it for non scatter deep striking even if you didn't pay for it?
Yes. Fortifications are considered terrain, so they work for anybody. I think situations where the enemy takes control of it are going to be extremely rare, but if it happens, then yes. I believe there is a rule somewhere that you can only change its configuration if you have a model in base contact and the enemy does not, so it's not trivial to do.
Soooooo, what happens if a Vindicaire Assassin fires his shield-breaker round at something protected by the skyshield? Is just that model now forbidden from taking an invulnerable save? Could the vindicaire shoot the skyshield itself and remove all the invulnerable saves?
That's simple. The Shyshield is not wargear. Vindicaire weapon only breaks shields that's apart of wargear. It might effect true names for example, but not a daemons ivulnerable save or through psychic power.
Can't you simply blow up the actual building itself? Get some Imperial Fists, grab some Lascannons, got your Tankhunters against buildings, and blow it to pieces... And then Vindicators on the gathered targets?
From my understanding the Skyshield isn't a destructible building. Anyway I've got no problems with them. From my experience with 6th ed, "Parking Lot" armies don't tend to do as well as they used to, and other than using it for a parking lot or to protect heavy weapons troops I don't see it as being any more nasty than being in regular cover. I don't use heldrakes, burning brand or template weapons so I don't really care that it's an invulnerable save instead of cover save (which would make more sense...).
To be annoying though I would like to try Tzeentch obliterator spamming on a skyshield. That could be nasty.
I know a chaos player who uses them to put a whole heap of units with the mark of Tzeetch on them, because the skysheild oconfer a 4++ save to those on top and the mark increases that to a 3++. I'll tell ya, that can be a harder fortress to crack than a fortress of redemption, so it feels. It gets infuriating when you get into the mindset that FUCKING CULTISTS SHOULD NOT BE THAT HARD TO KILL!
But the answer is yes. I don't mind fortifinations being a thing, we even allow the necron one from Imperial armour. Now that's scary.
The problem with it some armies like Tau benefit from it greatly, units like kroot for example.
Anyway nids for example wouldn't really benefit from th shield.
It's great for deep striking units and for ranged platforms. If Daemons didn't change so much I would had been got one.
In that case, all you need to do is get one decent assault unit stuck in there, and start tearing things open. Otherwise, a 4+ is usually less than a 3+; usual Marine protocol, just keep pouring on fire until they roll failures.
Problem is that even on top, if your the right size your still getting a 3+ cover from the barriers on it and a 4+ invun if your facing something that ignores cover.
I personally think they are beyond broken just because you cant destroy them.
I didnt even think of Tzeentch Chaos, time to make some lists!