The Eldar Alliance vs. Necro-Orks in "When I Grow Up..." (1500, 12/29)

[Chicop76]

Great report, it was nice to have a solid story line for the DE/E, all they need now are some recurring bad guys! I do like the introduction of the new character Glory, it'll be nice to see how things develop and I love the fact that Y'stral got to go to town! My own Archon chopped through a plague champion and a Chaos Lord last game I played, very satisfying.

I do not even know what my Archon kills anymore, as everyone always send something to become the scapegoat to be eaten by the Archon or they accept the challenge. I only had my Archon dying once to challenges, but most of the time I win. Of course that saying, I only usually deploy the Archon out from his transports for two reasons and two reasons only

1) When I know I can win assault

2) To give my opponent a chance to use their HQs for something heroic (or foolish depending on situation).

Otherwise I tend to always move around the board peppering shots from afar.

Archon bad. Before the sister nerf my Cannoness would defeat the Archon. Thanks to the updated sister book they have nothing to deal with the Archon now. Few rmies have anything that can take the Archon out besides turning him into a spawn or squig.

If we are talking about 4th edition nonsense, then the top three combat monsters are the Daemon Prince/Lord, Archon and the Canoness. This is true in that edition.

For this edition, I am not really sure who are the top dog CC HQs anymore, barring special characters.

From what I seen Nids can be. The Swarmlord with 2 random psyker powers is a beast in combat. The problem is that the powers are random though, so enffeble and heomrage really wouldn't be that helpful while on the other hand possibly having str 9, 7 attcks, I 7, t 9, with prefrred enemy, and eternal warrior, plus causing instant death with you re rolling invulnerable saves would be for me at the top of the list. With out powers not having eternal warrior puts him a bit lower.

Another really strong melee combantant is the bloodthirster. 5 A at strength 7- 9. Has fear with Eternal Warrior, +2 invulnerable save against force weapons, and is a winged monstrous creature. I call this guy hey the Avatar kicks butt let's make it better minus the immunity to fire weapons and melta shot. That ws 10 does make a differance in combat.

The Archon I would rank under the above mention. Against a Thirster one on one the Archon dies every time. The thirster only needs on hit to kill while at best, unless he killed a mc or ie. The achon will be hitting and wounding on 4s and need to get through a 4+ save. While the Thirster need 3s and 2s to hit and have to wait till the Archon fails his save of a +2 invulnerable. A strength 10 Archon would do much better wounding on 2s, but he will have to kill 2 ic or mc to even get that high of a strength before the thirster covers 36" max to get in his face. Realistically if with wytch or Incubui the Archon would fair much better especiall if he re reolling that +2 invulnurable thanks to his side line cheering.

Against the Swarmlord it depends on the randomness of the lord, but in the end if the Archon can cause instant death than he may win more than he lose. If the swarmloord goes first and forces th archon to re roll his invulnerable saves while dishing out 5-7 attacks than I would favor the lord slightly more even more so if he has iron arm.

The eternal warrior pheonix lord I seen do really well in combat. In my opinion I think he is better in melee tan the avatar. Mainly due to the new challenge rules and the fact he is an IC. Although the Avatar can take out vehicles to me this edition the Pheonix Lords look much more attractive of a choice.

I think the final beat stick supreme I seen is the Orc War boss special character. When he calls the Waaagh he gets a +2 invulnerable save on top of eternal warrio. He is tough enough to survise the two rounds of combat with that save and stomp what ever is in his way. To be honest I never seen that character lose combat while in Waaaaagh mode. Without Waaaaghhing he would rank a bit lower due to his normal invulnerable save, but a good Orc player would hold that Waaagh until this warboss is in combat with an archon or other devestating combat unit.

I know there are others, but the ones I mention has been reall consistant in spreading death. There is abbandon and the dual fisted space marine one, but when faced against the above I seen them lose more often than win.

I still think having an Archon in a DE army is a solid choise. I like the equipment options for him to make him a trully unique character and you do not feel forced to use a special character instead.

I looked at the 3 eldar troop choices and it is hard for me to figure out what to go with. I was gonna do a DE army, but due to my economic criss I put them on hold. I do have 10 warriors and a boat though. Anyway here is the issues I have.

Wytches is a solid unit in combat, until they get or get a str upgrade the really lack the decieve push element. They can tie up units and run down t3 modes, but against 4 and especially 5 they get stuck in combat. Their upgrade character helps, which is the only reason they win some combats. Challenges works nicely with this unit even so if the challenge haw -2 attacks. Not saying it's bad. The possibility of str 5 attacks makes it an awesome combat unit on the field. However it seems that your drugs dictate how well they will do. I sampled putting a hamey with this unit last edition which worked out pretty well. I have him provide the feel no pain to the unit. I either assult with them or detach him, so he doesn't prevent theunit from assaulting. He tends to be save due to him being behind the combat and thus untargetable. In 6th howevr feel no pain for this purpose is worst since static fire is going toward this unit. 50 or 60 points to give this unit a +5 save seems much. The flamer option is rather nice, but

Next is the warrio. Thanks to the buff of 6th edition you can unleash a torrent of plasma shots on the go, from a boat, from the groud, in terrain, on a train Sam I Am lol. Anyway they are still fragile and poison really don't help in some cases. Aginst t4 and higher it is awesome. Aginst t3 or lower you feel like you're getting robbed. An example is there are cheaper models out there or cost the same that can dish out the same, but wound on 3s or 2s. Against Tau for example your warriors is in a one sided shooting match. Yes they have better ws, but they wounding on 4s with Tau having a +4 save. On the other hand Tau wounds on 2s denying saves. Tau are more durable to de fire power and dish out death from a far. Armies as a whole DE is better, but against tau, eldar, guard, orcs, even nids you start to wonder if your +4 ranged poison weapons are trully worth it. When I say nids I mean nids with few mcs. However it is a boon aaginst a large number of MCs.

Wreaks come of to be the combination of the two. Can wound high toughness and can stay in combat. They perform just as good as wytchs due and even better if say aginst 5 or higher. Dual flamrs make them great inflicting inital damage before the assault and wall of fire is nice. With a hammy they are re rolling wounds against most units and with a second hemmy they will stay in combat. Sounds great right. However the flame attacks can hurt you to not get in combat for one. Also they really don't fare well against a challenge. The new fnp is better and worst for them. Out side of combat it is worst for them. When they enter combat it is better. Although against plasma they can save against it. However out of the other two they come of a balance of the other units like a jack of all trades. I would want this unit on an objective over the other two. Against some units in combat this unit performs better than wytches. Only real down side to them is mobility and ranged firing, plus you have to field a hammy to have them score.

My delima when it comes to those three choices is knowing what I want. To compensate for lack of shooting putting 5 wreaks in a venom comes to mind with 12 shots shooting. with warriors and wytches boats come to mind. However how many of each do you take. Do I take mostly wariiors with one wreak and wytch unit. All wreaks etc. Although I do think it is good that the bok would have you try to figure out which is best for you. While in some other books you go with that choice and never concider the other options.

I hate DE in general cause they come off designed to be anti daemon. I fought them only 3 times and won each encounter, bolt shots for the win and gaze with flame death. Even though I won it was hard fought in each case. With 2 would had been loses, but I won thanks to fateweaver tying up an Archon twice with Incubui plus two wytch squads for major contestment. Wining by one is still winning. I've found the poison t be worst than the lance shots while being daemonsr.

I like your firedragons. I have firedragons, but never had a chance to field them. Back in 3rd and 4th I rather use other options. In 5th I can see why they are used and this report wants me to field them. I always went with my Dark Reapers cause I love the models I used to use Mungan Ra back in the day with my Eldar, it was a fluffly choice since I was playing with Uthrwe Strik3e force.I have to review the reapers again. If I remember corretly they can lay down large pie plates of death or the upgrade character can.

Reading your Orc reports I can see you enjoy using artillery. Eldar have the option and I used it in the past. Although mine was coming out of a portal and was easily within range. Portal behind buildings that block line of sight is awesome. I played aaginst the vibro cannon which is very annoying, if line up right it can caause several hull point damage in one go. I used the wraith gun large pie plate of death. When I say death I mean death. That pie plate does a lot of damage to those unfortante souls that is under it. My point is it makes a great sniping weapon since you have to take away from the center as the closest. I have to review the rules againn and read the new faq. Thinking about it with allies you can hide them behind a vehicle that blocks line of sight. That way they can't be shot at while they launch death from above.

[Lord Sotek]

Loved this report! As mentioned, the solid plot-seed and interplay between Thiel, Glory, and Y'stral made this rep a grand read, and I'm eager for more. I agree with you wholeheartedly; Y'stral is one of those characters who does much better as a secondary character, where he can be more effectively be played off of Thiel as the "straight man" rather than just gonzoing it out in the limelight by himself.

As a Necron player, I also did a small joyful dance at seeing someone finally write another Necron Overlord with some real character, goals, and purpose beyond "grr I am a regenerating deathtoaster, die puny mortals!"

If we see more spotlights on a side character, my vote is for Allonia. Poor girl is so hapless at being a cacklingly self-assured ambitious evil elf-thing you honestly feel sorry for her.

As for recurring villains, the only one that has sprung to mind recently is Malefans, the Slaaneshi Sorcerer with Duumrider in tow.  Sadly enough, nothing epic like Lady D who was just... amazing.  I'll be hard pressed to find another character like her, but there's always hope!  Perhaps I can get a recurring player, but sometimes it's hard as people keep changing their lists and HQs, so it can be a bit hard to find someone who isn't just using Coteaz or some special character all the time...

If you're good for Vassal games, I have a DIY astartes chapter with a hateon for Dark Eldar, not to mention a scheming, manic-depressive Necron Overlord with nefarious plots galore and a love of sticking it to the Old Gods' favored children, available for potential recurring-antagonist material...

[Rej]

If we see more spotlights on a side character, my vote is for Allonia. Poor girl is so hapless at being a cacklingly self-assured ambitious evil elf-thing you honestly feel sorry for her.

I second this! I love Allonia!

[BigToof]

Hi Chicop,
Thanks for your reply.  I have been thinking about Eldar Artillery.
Is it true that you can put a Farseer with D-Cannons as a unit?

I've heard it done, but thought it was shenanigans...

Loved this report! As mentioned, the solid plot-seed and interplay between Thiel, Glory, and Y'stral made this rep a grand read, and I'm eager for more. I agree with you wholeheartedly; Y'stral is one of those characters who does much better as a secondary character, where he can be more effectively be played off of Thiel as the "straight man" rather than just gonzoing it out in the limelight by himself.

As a Necron player, I also did a small joyful dance at seeing someone finally write another Necron Overlord with some real character, goals, and purpose beyond "grr I am a regenerating deathtoaster, die puny mortals!"

If we see more spotlights on a side character, my vote is for Allonia. Poor girl is so hapless at being a cacklingly self-assured ambitious evil elf-thing you honestly feel sorry for her.

As for recurring villains, the only one that has sprung to mind recently is Malefans, the Slaaneshi Sorcerer with Duumrider in tow.  Sadly enough, nothing epic like Lady D who was just... amazing.  I'll be hard pressed to find another character like her, but there's always hope!  Perhaps I can get a recurring player, but sometimes it's hard as people keep changing their lists and HQs, so it can be a bit hard to find someone who isn't just using Coteaz or some special character all the time...

If you're good for Vassal games, I have a DIY astartes chapter with a hateon for Dark Eldar, not to mention a scheming, manic-depressive Necron Overlord with nefarious plots galore and a love of sticking it to the Old Gods' favored children, available for potential recurring-antagonist material...

Thanks for the kind words Isaac!

I really do like Gloriana and Thiel and hope that future endeavors will work with them as well.

Allonia, eh?

Hmm... Have to try working in that direction then.

BTW, I do have a fluff piece up for Bella, let me know if that format is working for you, and I might be able to get something with Allonia in it in the future.
If you prefer rep-style, let me know as well, and I'll just try to put her in the next rep.

As for Vassal...  Well, even though I DO have Vassal, I rarely have time on-line as I take what time I do have for real-life gaming.  I hope to get painting done this year, so I can actually start showing pictures of my models again (only my Orks are painted, and even then, not all of them), to make better reps, I hope 
Thanks for the offer though!

If we see more spotlights on a side character, my vote is for Allonia. Poor girl is so hapless at being a cacklingly self-assured ambitious evil elf-thing you honestly feel sorry for her.

I second this! I love Allonia!

Thanks Rej,
I really like Allonia too.  I'll try to put her in somehow

Best,
-BT

[crisis_vyper]

From what I seen Nids can be. The Swarmlord with 2 random psyker powers is a beast in combat. The problem is that the powers are random though, so enffeble and heomrage really wouldn't be that helpful while on the other hand possibly having str 9, 7 attcks, I 7, t 9, with prefrred enemy, and eternal warrior, plus causing instant death with you re rolling invulnerable saves would be for me at the top of the list. With out powers not having eternal warrior puts him a bit lower.

Another really strong melee combantant is the bloodthirster. 5 A at strength 7- 9. Has fear with Eternal Warrior, +2 invulnerable save against force weapons, and is a winged monstrous creature. I call this guy hey the Avatar kicks butt let's make it better minus the immunity to fire weapons and melta shot. That ws 10 does make a differance in combat.

The Archon I would rank under the above mention. Against a Thirster one on one the Archon dies every time. The thirster only needs on hit to kill while at best, unless he killed a mc or ie. The achon will be hitting and wounding on 4s and need to get through a 4+ save. While the Thirster need 3s and 2s to hit and have to wait till the Archon fails his save of a +2 invulnerable. A strength 10 Archon would do much better wounding on 2s, but he will have to kill 2 ic or mc to even get that high of a strength before the thirster covers 36" max to get in his face. Realistically if with wytch or Incubui the Archon would fair much better especiall if he re reolling that +2 invulnurable thanks to his side line cheering.

Against the Swarmlord it depends on the randomness of the lord, but in the end if the Archon can cause instant death than he may win more than he lose. If the swarmloord goes first and forces th archon to re roll his invulnerable saves while dishing out 5-7 attacks than I would favor the lord slightly more even more so if he has iron arm.

The eternal warrior pheonix lord I seen do really well in combat. In my opinion I think he is better in melee tan the avatar. Mainly due to the new challenge rules and the fact he is an IC. Although the Avatar can take out vehicles to me this edition the Pheonix Lords look much more attractive of a choice.

I think the final beat stick supreme I seen is the Orc War boss special character. When he calls the Waaagh he gets a +2 invulnerable save on top of eternal warrio. He is tough enough to survise the two rounds of combat with that save and stomp what ever is in his way. To be honest I never seen that character lose combat while in Waaaaagh mode. Without Waaaaghhing he would rank a bit lower due to his normal invulnerable save, but a good Orc player would hold that Waaagh until this warboss is in combat with an archon or other devestating combat unit.

I know there are others, but the ones I mention has been reall consistant in spreading death. There is abbandon and the dual fisted space marine one, but when faced against the above I seen them lose more often than win.

I still think having an Archon in a DE army is a solid choise. I like the equipment options for him to make him a trully unique character and you do not feel forced to use a special character instead.

I did say barring special characters, and the Swarmlord and Ghazghull are special characters so they do not count. I would agree about the Bloodthirster, but you do not see it often these days as everyone just goes ahead and take a Lord of Change as a result of their amazing invuls.

If we are counting Special characters, then of course there are better ones, but I am limiting my idea of a CC IC to non-special character models.

The Archons are really choppy, but sort of pricey, which is nice, as it keeps you from spending TOO many points, although I find that just the presence of the huskblade often deters assaults, which isn't that bad, as it keeps your Wyches or whatnot alive that much longer.
I've come to realize that Wyches just aren't that effective in putting out wounds.  However, they make a great meat shield/tar pit for your Archon to work with.  For that reason, I always put on a Hekatrix so she can take any challenges that would normally keep the Archon from going to work.
Assault is so hard to work with nowadays, I find myself sometimes just shooting things until they are mostly dead and just getting an assault off turn 4/5 because I feel I just HAVE to.

Well I am never one for assaults to begin with, and I tend to face against opponents that could tarpit even better than myself *cough*Imperial Guard*Cough*Cultist*Cough*Any Horde*Cough* and thus I need to get out from a tarpit as soon as possible. This is perhaps why I am using Incubi as my CC unit of choice these days. Not to mention that every foolish Marine player believes that Terminators are the hottest thing around, and Klaives always gave them a rude awakening.

They are also smashingly cool models to begin with as well, and fit with my Kabal theme.

[Chicop76]

Tx Biggy. I would say they should be able to join them. Heck the squad can come with a Warlock to give them better leadrship rolls or a cover save. Never thought about puting a Farseer with them though.

Knocking off te dust webs off my old dex I looked over the pheonix lords again. Thanks to lack of ap2 goodness they are much better now. I forgot how good Fugan Ra was. Also I forgot how much Dark Reapers where. The exarch for them can fire two missle hits or ignore cover from a far. Seeing that dark reapers turn marines into goo their cost is justified. One reaper can kill onme maybe two marines in one shooting which will justify their cost.

Well The bloodthirster, keeper of secrets, space wolves lord is the only thing I can think off that would kill an Archon properly equiped. I was thinking maybe a Nercron Lord, but no EW makes it rather hard for him to get an Archon. That said not to many non specials can best an Archon in HQ. However a C'tan shard can and that is really about it.

I always wanted to see how well a 20 man squad of wytches would fare as a tarpit unit.