Trying out an unfamiliar codex, would appreciate your thoughts. (IG 1k list)

[Lord Sotek]

Hey, guys-

I've had the Imperial Guard dex for a bit now, played against it one or two times, and finally decided to take it out for a spin myself. To that end, I've whipped up what I hope is a balanced and workable 1k list, but since it's my first attempt I'd value you guys' input.

Imperial Guard, 1,000 pts, No Allies:

"4th Iridian Vangrenadiers, Advance Recon Detachment"

==HQ==
Company Command Squad - 150 pts
-Major Josef Svalbard (Plasma Pistol, Power Sword)
-4x Veterans with Plasma Guns
-Carapace Armor

==TROOPS==

Veteran Squad ("Sig's Crew") - (150 pts)
-Veteran Sergeant Sigfreida Helden (Gunnery Sergeant Harker)
-1x Veteran with Flamer
-8x Veterans with Lasguns
-Camo Cloaks

Infantry Platoon: 190 points
-Command Squad
--Lt. Johan Ranulf (Laspistol, Power Sword)
--4x Guardsmen w/ Grenade Launchers

-Combined Infantry Squad
--2x Sergeants
--2x Autocannons
--2x Grenade Launchers
--12x Guardsmen w/ Lasguns

==FAST ATTACK==
Sentinel Squadron Alpha - 120 pts
-3x Scout Sentinels with Autocannons

Sentinel Squadron Beta - 120 pts
-3x Scout Sentinels with Autocannons

H

[BigToof]

Hi Isaac Baraqiel,
First off, like the fluff possibilities from your list, but I feel you may be too widespread with this one.
You have a bit of everything, but that actually might run you into problems.
Your CCS is very expensive for what it will do, and plasma is kind of dangerous, even with carapace to help mitigate that.  You'll also get it targeted rather often, and it's a big investment (both tactical and pointwise to lose).
20 man blob is a bit on the small side, and I see you've gone Autocannons...
I've found AC to be a bit lackluster this edition, as you need 6's to explode whatever you're shooting at.  Granted you can still try for glances, but you need quite a few shots to do that.
The 2+ cover save Vet squad is also a bit pricey, but it's very interesting, try it and see if it works for you.

The Walkers are interesting, although I have yet to try Sentinels, you may want to try with a single unit to see if it performs for you.  You need a certain mindset with walkers this edition, and I have uh... yet to see them do as well as they did in 5th.

The Devil Dogs are an interesting selection.  They can't target fliers (which I am starting to see more and more), and are exclusively anti-tank.  They're REALLY good as anti heavy-tank, but I'm a bit worried they may be the only thing your opponent will shoot at then well... you might be in trouble.

I'd really advise more boots (infantry) overall, as you'll find that they fall down seriously quick versus anything else out there.  But... that is what foot guard is all about after all.

Best,
-BT

[Arguleon-veq]

I think the first problem is that you have a lot of points invested in very vulnerable command squads. Those squads are going to die easily and they wont get much use out of those expensive upgrades. If you want to give them decent ranged weapons [not grenade launchers because they are terrible] you need to put them in a chimera.

Vets are a nice choice but your unit is way too mixed up. I think camo cloaks is the best way to go with them but the character is way too expensive. You also dont want to be using the flamer. Ideally this squad should sit in heavy cover and lay down some nice firepower. So take the points from those command squads and put the plasmas in here and give them an autocannon or lascannon to go with them.

The blob squad as bigtoof said, is too small. Even if your just adding basic bodies to the unit it will really help. I love the autocannon for them but I prefer the flamer on these as they will probably have to move towards an objective and 3 flamers is nice to fend off a charge. Ideally you want your Sarges with power axes too.

I really like armoured sentinals with autocannons, not scout sentinals. Just put some armour plates on them.

The devil dogs dont really do anything very well. Id drop them for a demolisher to hide your command squads behind. This wont give up first blood and it can do the job of both devil dogs if you give it some multi meltas and a lascannon.

[Lord Sotek]

Hi Isaac Baraqiel,
First off, like the fluff possibilities from your list, but I feel you may be too widespread with this one.
You have a bit of everything, but that actually might run you into problems.
Your CCS is very expensive for what it will do, and plasma is kind of dangerous, even with carapace to help mitigate that.  You'll also get it targeted rather often, and it's a big investment (both tactical and pointwise to lose).

Hey, Bigtoof- Thanks for the response! Glad you like (and can already see!) the fluff so far, too! It seems I really just can't make an army, not even a relatively 'throwaway' test drive list like this, without trying to come up with a story for them.

I'm starting to agree with you on the CCS, but on the other hand, I also find myself thinking about the potential devastation four to nine plasma shots can cause. I expect you'll be proved right, but I think I'll give them a test run anyways, just to see how they'll do.

20 man blob is a bit on the small side, and I see you've gone Autocannons...
I've found AC to be a bit lackluster this edition, as you need 6's to explode whatever you're shooting at.  Granted you can still try for glances, but you need quite a few shots to do that.

Yeah, I'll be honest, I've always had a massive fetish for autocannons. They appeal to me on some orkish level, due to the combination of power, dakka, and versatility. I get what you're saying about paying for that versatility with a need for chancier high rolls vs tough targets; I've tried to offset that by sticking in a bunch, in the hopes of Mathhammering up some results. 'Everything counts in large amounts," as they say.

The 2+ cover save Vet squad is also a bit pricey, but it's very interesting, try it and see if it works for you.

I had them in mind as an objective-claimer unit; they have a fair amount of firepower, can still contribute the full degree of that firepower when moving up into a position, and hopefully the ultra high cover save can help make them a tough nut to crack once they've gotten there and dug in. I'm also just enamored of shocktrooper/commando style units from a fluff perspective.

The Walkers are interesting, although I have yet to try Sentinels, you may want to try with a single unit to see if it performs for you.  You need a certain mindset with walkers this edition, and I have uh... yet to see them do as well as they did in 5th.

I'm curious, what do you think that mindset would be? I took Sentinels because I've always loved the fluff for that unit, and figured you couldn't go far wrong with a mobile squadron of walking autocannons, especially if you could take more than one unit and bring them in bulk.

The Devil Dogs are an interesting selection.  They can't target fliers (which I am starting to see more and more), and are exclusively anti-tank.  They're REALLY good as anti heavy-tank, but I'm a bit worried they may be the only thing your opponent will shoot at then well... you might be in trouble.

I have a lurking paranoia of AV14 vehicles. There's been too many games where my seeming inability to take down that crucial Russ or Battlewagon has been costly in the extreme. Beyond that, I also figured the Heckpuppies would be nice to have in the event that I find myself facing a deathstar or TEQ unit. Strikes me that two S8 AP1 blasts would be a pleasantly effective way to give such units the middle finger.

Thankfully, my pool of potential opponents is one that either doesn't have the trust fund for, or else ideologically disdains, fliers.

I'd really advise more boots (infantry) overall, as you'll find that they fall down seriously quick versus anything else out there.  But... that is what foot guard is all about after all.

I'm taking this one to heart. Guard has seemed frustratingly less squishy than expected when I've been fighting against them, but I suspect they won't feel so resilient when under my command.

[Lord Sotek]

I think the first problem is that you have a lot of points invested in very vulnerable command squads. Those squads are going to die easily and they wont get much use out of those expensive upgrades. If you want to give them decent ranged weapons [not grenade launchers because they are terrible] you need to put them in a chimera.

I tend to agree; a lot of things about the guard codex don't really seem to mesh with the 'heroic' playstyle I tend to gravitate to. I didn't put them in a Chimera because I'm leery of transports this edition; in my experience so far, they mostly seem to be points sinks that blow up and give your enemy kill-points. It's kind of hard to explain, but also as I was drafting the list it suddenly seemed that Chimeras didn't 'feel' right for the flavor of the force I was putting together.

Like I said to bigtoof, I suspect that once I play the list you'll be proved right, but I've decided I still want to take the Plasma-Spam command squad out for a spin at least once to see for myself what happens.

As to grenade launchers... They're uninspiring, but they're dirt cheap, so you can potentially take bucketloads of them. That was actually part of my initial concept, and they also seemed appropriate for something I was envisioning as a 'grenadier' force.

Vets are a nice choice but your unit is way too mixed up. I think camo cloaks is the best way to go with them but the character is way too expensive. You also dont want to be using the flamer. Ideally this squad should sit in heavy cover and lay down some nice firepower. So take the points from those command squads and put the plasmas in here and give them an autocannon or lascannon to go with them.

I had the vets unit in mind as a mobile-firepower objective taker that could shoot up the enemy at full effectiveness while advancing into a position, then hunker down once they got there and just tough out the rest of battle with their cover save while continuing to pour down fire. The flamer was there because I had the five points and figured that a modicum of charge-deterrent is better than none. If the plasma CCS performs as badly as expected, I'll probably do much what you've suggested in my next iteration of the list.

I don't really think Harker is negotiable. He certainly is expensive, but I've already gotten attached towards the character I made to count him as; and it does seem to me that the combination of a Relentless heavy bolter and the special rules he imparts doesn't come off too badly at all. I would think a squad with Stealth AND camo cloaks is going to be a fairly tough nut to crack, barring most things short of a flamer assault?

The blob squad as bigtoof said, is too small. Even if your just adding basic bodies to the unit it will really help. I love the autocannon for them but I prefer the flamer on these as they will probably have to move towards an objective and 3 flamers is nice to fend off a charge. Ideally you want your Sarges with power axes too.

I agree about size, and I'm going to take your and Bigtoof's advice about getting more boots on the ground.

For armament, I decided when making the list that if I was going to play Imperial Guard, then I might as well play Imperial Guard full bore and take to heart the axom of "If you're in close combat in the first place, you're doing Guard wrong and you've probably lost." Combo of not having many points left to spread around and preferring dakka I can always use over flamers I might get/need to use means the squad will be staying much as it is.

In a theoretical larger-points list, though, I definitely want to start including Flammenwerfer Squads.

I really like armoured sentinals with autocannons, not scout sentinals. Just put some armour plates on them.

Would've preferred armored sentinels too, but I just didn't have the points in this 1k list. Maybe for a 1.5k iteration.

The devil dogs dont really do anything very well. Id drop them for a demolisher to hide your command squads behind. This wont give up first blood and it can do the job of both devil dogs if you give it some multi meltas and a lascannon.

I've heard a fair bit of advice that disagrees with you there. From what I've gathered, Devil Dogs are a high risk high reward unit; if things go your way, they can tear the heart out of an enemy force and make far more than their points back.

The demolisher's a very good suggestion though, one I hadn't thought of. I'd semi-intentionally been avoiding heavy armor for the sake of theme, but a demolisher could well fit, and it seems like it'd fill the role I had in mind for the heckpuppies quite well indeed. I think I'll experiment with both and see how I like each. My only quibble with a demolisher is that while the demo's pie plate is bigger and stronger, I have pretty terrible luck with dice, so having two still-very-strong blasts to throw down seems like good Murphy insurance.

[BigToof]

Sounds great to me!
I'm looking forward to seeing the reps.
I'm always quite impressed with your fluff (even though I... uh... haven't posted on it that much).
So, it'll be interesting to see how things evolve.
If you want help with pics or writeup, let me know!

Best,
-BT

[Lord Sotek]

So... Taking your suggestions into consideration, here's what I'm thinking I'll do to tweak the list.

Changes are somewhat conservative. Depending on how they do in battle, they might get more extensively tweaked. As it is, I scrapped the second Sentinel squadron and the grenade launchers in the blob squad in order to take a second Blob Squad and give each squad an autocannon and a missile launcher apeice, rather than two autocannons. I think the missile launchers will keep the squads versatile and complement the autocannons, but improve my chances of taking down armor. Particularly if Hollebringt Squadron goes kaput.


Imperial Guard, 1,000 pts, No Allies (v2):

"4th Iridian Vangrenadiers, Advance Recon Detachment"

==HQ==
Company Command Squad - 150 pts
-Colonel Josef Svalbard (Plasma Pistol, Power Sword)
-4x Veterans with Plasma Guns
-Carapace Armor

==TROOPS==

Veteran Squad ("Sig's Crew") - (150 pts)
-Veteran Sergeant Sigfreida Helden (Gunnery Sergeant Harker)
-1x Veteran with Flamer
-8x Veterans with Lasguns
-Camo Cloaks

Infantry Platoon: 310 points
-Command Squad
--Lt. Johan Ranulf (Laspistol, Power Sword)
--4x Guardsmen w/ Grenade Launchers

-Combined Infantry Squad Alpha
--2x Sergeants
--1x Autocannon
--1x Missile Launcher
--12x Guardsmen w/ Lasguns

-Combined Infantry Squad Beta
--2x Sergeants
--1x Autocannons
--1x Missile Launcher
--12x Guardsmen w/ Lasguns

==FAST ATTACK==
Sentinel Squadron Hetzer - 120 pts
-3x Scout Sentinels with Autocannons

H

[BigToof]

Better I think than the first version.

I think you're about at the time to try and run a first game.
Don't be discouraged if it's a bit wonky, the first uh... half-dozen or so really until you get the bits worked out.
Let us know how it goes!

Best,
-BT

[Chicop76]

I have found that power swords really don't help much and you now have other options like the maul, or axe, With the axe you are wounding marines on 4s instead of 5s which really help out in case you hit combat.

I run plasma gunners in my hq unit as well. I use a medic instead which used to be a double 4+ save in case my plasma over heat. Also it is important to roll for each guy seprately instead of rolling all at once to cut down on potential losses. I run 3 with a medic. Also with a medic it does help your HQ survive alttile bit longer in challenges. I suggest a power fist for the in case you hit combat though.