Questions in regards to these two things

[crisis_vyper]

Heya, just the other day while my group was playing a Apoc game we bumped into two rather weird questions;

1) Can a Voidraven Bomber use its void mine even though it is shaken? The reason why this came up is because the bomb ' is placed during the movement phase' but at the same time it is also a weapon.

2) The rules for a drop pod says that when it arrives it counts as being immobilized. Does that also mean that the drop pod will have one hull point down when it lands?

[Chicop76]

Heya, just the other day while my group was playing a Apoc game we bumped into two rather weird questions;

1) Can a Voidraven Bomber use its void mine even though it is shaken? The reason why this came up is because the bomb ' is placed during the movement phase' but at the same time it is also a weapon.

2) The rules for a drop pod says that when it arrives it counts as being immobilized. Does that also mean that the drop pod will have one hull point down when it lands?

#1 do not know.

#2 it retains full hull points, but it has the effect. It's for theses reasons.
1. Pointless to get the effectif it can't move. An imobile effect will cause weapon destroyed.
2. It states the obvious and prevents people for trying to actually move it
3. If it get an immobilzed result via deepstike it can destroy the one weapon it haves and another pen will wreak it at the least.
4. It's RAW for people who try to bend the rules.

To answer #2 the answer is no unless you roll a one landing in difficult terrain.

[Arguleon-veq]

A drop pod does lose a hull point when it lands. Thats how everyone I know plays it and how all the tournaments my mates go play it. I use drop pods so I would rather they didnt as it makes them a liability when up against a quadgun and your going first as there is a good chance of you losing first blood.

[Chicop76]

A drop pod does lose a hull point when it lands. Thats how everyone I know plays it and how all the tournaments my mates go play it. I use drop pods so I would rather they didnt as it makes them a liability when up against a quadgun and your going first as there is a good chance of you losing first blood.

I know in 5th it takes a hit, but I will look over and re read everything again. If it takes a hit than yes. If it is just a statis than no.

[Charistoph]

Deep Striking vehicles do not receive any type of hits normally.  The rules I have immediately available to me do not state that the Drop Pod takes a hit of any kind when deployed.  It does say it receives the RESULT of Immobilization, not the actual damage.  So unless it's drop puts it in a situation to receive a Glancing or Penetrating hit, it will be on the board with full Hull Points.

I could be wrong, if so, please reference.

[Chicop76]

Looking at the dark angel's drop pod wording it says " has suffered an Immobilized damage result"

On pg. 74 these are the qualifications to losing a hull point:
Glancing and penetrating hit.

It's not glancing which you would take any results. I would argue it's not a pen hit since the Immobile rule does not state it is taking a penetration hit.

If you do as it says and go to result 5 on the table it says nothing about taking a hull point. It goes into immobilized and what it means. Interesting you lose a hull point and not a weapon if a pen hi would gt this result vs drop pod.

I'll look some more, but as it is worded you shouldn't take a hull point. If worded that it took a pen hit and have the immobile result than yes. It does not say anything about the drop pod taking a pen.

[Waaaghpower]

I'm going to agree with Chicop: You count as taking an immobilized result, not a penetrating hit that causes immobilization.

[Chicop76]

#1: without looking at the Faq I will say no and here is the reason. If it's shaken only snap shots can be fired, if this is the case than that means blast can not be fired, which means the bomb a blst weapon can not be fired.

The only reason it would argue it would work if snap shots only apply to the shooting phase. However since you can snap shot due to over watch in the assult phase we know limiting it to theshooting phase is a no go.

The problem I see with #1 I can not see any RAW on it and it comes off as RAI unlike #2 which is RAW. Even though you can snap shot in the assult phase the rules says you can do so. While in the movement phase I have not seen anything about doing so unless you go to flyers and look up bombing runs which are done during the movement phase.

Another reason I would say no is that in the flyer section under bombing runs it is stated the bomb is fired during the movement phase. Fired= Snap Shots= not shooting. It does not come out and say it is a shooting attack, but it says to do a bombing run it takes away a shooting attack. Thinking more on this vector strikes is not shooting and does the same thing. I would say the FAQ may clear up this issue a bit more, and I gonna take back what I said about a bombing run being a shooting attack.

The only reason you can do #1 is if you argue that it is not a shooting attack like a vector strike and the rule snap shots only apply to shooting atacks. However a blast template is being used which muddles up the situation.

I'll look over the FAQ to see if I can get a RAW answer instead of going with an opinion that is a RAI answer.

I look over the FAQ and became very confussed and annoyed. Anyway here is my thoughts.

I was looking to see if you can bomb other flyers which would clear things up. The book covers MC vector strikes that can and skimmer vector strikes that can not. The differance between a chariot skimmer and a flying MC is one can skyfire while the other can not. The problem here is if you assume that the bombing run is like vector strikes than it opens a whole new batch of worms.

They makes me want to ask more questions.
1. Can flyers bomb other flyers
2. If vector strikes and runs not shooting attacks can you use them while in combat with other models
3. Do bombs scatter like regular shooting attacks
4. While in skyfire mode can flyers drop bombs
5. While make a jink can it drop a bomb in the following turn

If you can answer most of these questions it will answer your #1. If you say yes to these than you can do the op #1 question. If you say no than it will also apply to the OP #1 quesion as well.

[Wargamer]

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned a Drop Pod is a vehicle of type "Immobile" (ie: movement speed 0). That is clearly how it is intended to be played, it's just GW could never be arsed to add a vehicle type that only one vehicle in the whole game is going to use.

[Narric]

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned a Drop Pod is a vehicle of type "Immobile" (ie: movement speed 0). That is clearly how it is intended to be played, it's just GW could never be arsed to add a vehicle type that only one vehicle in the whole game is going to use.

Thats the simplest way to put it in my eyes.

I don't play Apoc, so I can't really comment on the Voidraven bomber question.

[Chicop76]

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned a Drop Pod is a vehicle of type "Immobile" (ie: movement speed 0). That is clearly how it is intended to be played, it's just GW could never be arsed to add a vehicle type that only one vehicle in the whole game is going to use.

Thats the simplest way to put it in my eyes.

I don't play Apoc, so I can't really comment on the Voidraven bomber question.

It really wouldn't matter since it would follow 6th edition flyer rules.

[Arguleon-veq]

Drop Pods "counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result."
Dangerous Terrain tests cause a vehicle to become instantly Immobilised.

Failed Dangerous Terrain tests cause a hull point loss. There's no penetrating hit.

As I said, I would rather it not happen as im the only person I know who uses them but I count mine as auto losing a hull point as its only fair with it being at the very least up in the air right now on the actual ruling.

[Chicop76]

Drop Pods "counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result."
Dangerous Terrain tests cause a vehicle to become instantly Immobilised.

Failed Dangerous Terrain tests cause a hull point loss. There's no penetrating hit.

As I said, I would rather it not happen as im the only person I know who uses them but I count mine as auto losing a hull point as its only fair with it being at the very least up in the air right now on the actual ruling.

I have to look at the FAQ, but looking at just the main book it doesn't say you loose a hull point going through terrain. It makes sense since it is silly that a mud puddle would cause damage.

I wanted to go into my response a bit. If you look up difficult terrain it says the model takes a wound, vehicles do not take wounds. Under the vehicle section it states the vehicle become imobile and does not say it loses a hull point.

I see it as a sprang ankle or stuck in quicksand vs a vehicle stuck in a mud puddle. I am goingjust by the book unless the FAQ says otherwise.

[Waaaghpower]

Drop Pods "counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result."
Dangerous Terrain tests cause a vehicle to become instantly Immobilised.

Failed Dangerous Terrain tests cause a hull point loss. There's no penetrating hit.

First off, failed Dangerous Terrain tests do not cause hull point loss. They just cause an immobilization result. Second, here is a quote from the rulebook:
'After deducting hull points, roll a D6 for each shot that penetrated the vehicle's armor.'
So, the extra damage results, (whether they be gun loss, wrecking, immobilization, or some kind of stunning of the crew) are completely separate from the taking of hull points.
NOW If you were to take an immobilized result after being immobilized already (Let's say a drop pod landed on dangerous terrain and rolled a '1') then you would take off a hull point, but barring that the Drop Pod comes down healthy.

[Chicop76]

Drop Pods "counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result."
Dangerous Terrain tests cause a vehicle to become instantly Immobilised.

Failed Dangerous Terrain tests cause a hull point loss. There's no penetrating hit.

First off, failed Dangerous Terrain tests do not cause hull point loss. They just cause an immobilization result. Second, here is a quote from the rulebook:
'After deducting hull points, roll a D6 for each shot that penetrated the vehicle's armor.'
So, the extra damage results, (whether they be gun loss, wrecking, immobilization, or some kind of stunning of the crew) are completely separate from the taking of hull points.
NOW If you were to take an immobilized result after being immobilized already (Let's say a drop pod landed on dangerous terrain and rolled a '1') then you would take off a hull point, but barring that the Drop Pod comes down healthy.

I just read the FAQ again. Difficult terrain causes a hull point, but the FAQ goes into detail that if a vehicle fail a difficult terrain check. The drop pod is not taking a difficult terrain che

Let's say you land in difficult terrain with the drop pod. That could be two hull points lost. I still do not see how imobile causes a hull point. If you want to argue about the impact than ignore retro boosters and the crew inside should take impact damage as well.

That is like saying chariot vector strikes and flying mc vector strikes is the same thing while one can hit flyers and the other one can not.