Harlequins and Daemons?

[BigToof]

Hi All,
Sorry to ask, but I've got a fluff problem.

Namely, my good friend who I often play against has a Dark Eldar army that is allied with... Chaos Daemons.

Not usually something to put on the Eldar/Imperium board, but he has Harlequins in the army too.

So umm...  thoughts?

I've been trying to figure out how the Harlies might be staying around the embodiments of Chaos, but I just can't wrap my mind around it...

Best,
-BT

[Carrelio]

Fluff matters less than cheese in the eyes of some people.  That's how.  If he's looking for a reason why this would happen... he could model the daemons as avatars of the laughing god, or have the eldar/dark eldar be eldar who fell to chaos and are not actually eldar at all anymore.

[knightperson]

Is he using three codices then? He can't do that. You can take an allied detachment, but only one. Even at 2000 points where you get the second force org chart, the second bunch of allies has to come from the same codex as the first one. Do Harlies appear in the Dark Eldar codex also? If so, then there's no rules reason why it can't be done.

[Wargamer]

Mechanically, it's allowed.

In the same way that, mechanically, there is nothing to stop you shooting yourself in the head if you have a gun, a bullet and a trigger finger.

Like the above, however, Harlequins + Daemons should never, ever be allowed. It is entirely against what Allies are meant to do.

[Lord Sotek]

Maybe let him play his list, but insist that he have to roll a 4+ at the start of each turn or have the Harlequins immediately fall back as far as possible to the closest table edge, attempting to quit the field in disgust at having been tricked into fighting alongside those who would consort with Daemons. Or that the Harlies will automatically attempt to shoot/assault any Daemon units within range.

Lets him use the list he made, but hammers home that this is a Piss Poor Choice for fluff reasons.

[crisis_vyper]

Hi All,
Sorry to ask, but I've got a fluff problem.

Namely, my good friend who I often play against has a Dark Eldar army that is allied with... Chaos Daemons.

Not usually something to put on the Eldar/Imperium board, but he has Harlequins in the army too.

So umm...  thoughts?

I've been trying to figure out how the Harlies might be staying around the embodiments of Chaos, but I just can't wrap my mind around it...

Best,
-BT

Fluffwise, there are some Dark Eldar Archons who consort with Daemons, but to disastrous effect. But Harlies and Daemons together are like Grey Knights and Daemons together.

But that saying, just let him play with whatever he wants. But just kill the Daemon units off.

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

You have a few options:

- Grin and bear it
- Tell him you won't play games with him until he has a plausible list
- Take a cheesy and mean as hell list against him and pwn him back to the stone age
- Apply Dreadsock Remedy

[Chicop76]

Maybe th Harliquins are waiting for the right time to strike at the Daemons. Let us ally with them to see their methods. Have them fight our enemies and when the time is right strike the Daemons when they least expect it.

I for one wouldn't really personaly care since it is allowed and I take it as a personal challenge to kill the models off. Looking at the allies though I think some allainces should had been estricted. Although would it really be fair if the 12 human factions could easily ally with 12, while the 12 non human races at most could ally with maybe 3. I see some allaince set is more of a balance reason than a fluff reason. Although I feel that nids had gotten the short end of the stick. I for one think Necrons shouldn't have allies as well.

Getting back to your problem. If you only play to write a narritive than do not play him and tell him it would ruin your story. If you playing to be playing or for fun. Than play him and do not worry about writing a story on the battle. Your friend gets to try out something he wanted to try out which would lead to a fun game.

Keep in mind if you kill all his dark eldar early off you win the game before the daemons get on the board.

If he is going with Slaanch daemons with Dark Eldar that would be a cool looking army. Isn't Slaaanech formed from Dark Eldar anyway, more or less since some Eldar went way on the other side for pleasure. Dark Eldar and Daemons alliance makes more sense to me than a Dark Eldar and Eldar alliance, I have the urge to slap anyone who merges the two Eldars and try to frm a narritive to why that would work, heck Choas Marines should ally with Space Wolves if that is so, oh wait they can  .

[Naser Al-Istikhara Cyrus]

If he is going with Slaanch daemons with Dark Eldar that would be a cool looking army. Isn't Slaaanech formed from Dark Eldar anyway, more or less since some Eldar went way on the other side for pleasure. Dark Eldar and Daemons alliance makes more sense to me than a Dark Eldar and Eldar alliance, I have the urge to slap anyone who merges the two Eldars and try to frm a narritive to why that would work, heck Choas Marines should ally with Space Wolves if that is so, oh wait they can  .

Slaanesh is the god who wants to kill all Dark Eldar - the reason they hide in the webway. The only way I can see Dark Eldar fighting for Slaanesh is if they were first turned into Chaos Spawns...

[Chicop76]

I

If he is going with Slaanch daemons with Dark Eldar that would be a cool looking army. Isn't Slaaanech formed from Dark Eldar anyway, more or less since some Eldar went way on the other side for pleasure. Dark Eldar and Daemons alliance makes more sense to me than a Dark Eldar and Eldar alliance, I have the urge to slap anyone who merges the two Eldars and try to frm a narritive to why that would work, heck Choas Marines should ally with Space Wolves if that is so, oh wait they can  .

Slaanesh is the god who wants to kill all Dark Eldar - the reason they hide in the webway. The only way I can see Dark Eldar fighting for Slaanesh is if they were first turned into Chaos Spawns...

Hmm. I guess it was the other way around. I thought it was the Dark eldar part which made Slaanesh and the Eldar was the ones that was hunted due to not falling into pleasure. Had it backwards lol.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

I have the urge to slap anyone who merges the two Eldars and try to frm a narritive to why that would work.

You mean despite the fact that the Dark Eldar saved Iyanden from an Ork invasion? There is fluff for that one taking place, and as others have pointed out, it represents Corsair lists etc as well. That one's easy to justify.

As for the original alliance, Dark Eldar are known to work with Chaos on occasion, but harlequins are so out of place in that scenario it's not even funny. I would personally suggest that he changes his list so that it makes sense, explaining why it currently doesn't in case he's unaware of the fluff.  If that fails, well, Zamibia's listed the options.

[Wargamer]

Strictly speaking, Commoraghan Eldar and Craftworld Eldar should not be Battle Brothers. Desperate Allies is closer to their true relationship.

However, the problem is that these two factions are two ends of a very broad spectrum. The Corsairs are the best example of this, ranging from Craftworlders with who just want a little more independence to depraved raiders who are right at home in the Dark City. Where one to add Corsairs to the game, they would have to be classed as Battle Brothers of both other Eldar groups simply to allow for the full spectrum of loyalties within their subspecies.

So yeah, I am not 100% sold on the E+DE thing, but as long as it is being used sensibly (ie: to represent either a specific scenario, or one of the 'grey' areas of the Eldar race) then it works.

[Irisado]

There's no background justification that I can think of which could explain Harlequins fighting alongside Daemons of Chaos.  That said, I assume that the Harlequins are simply one unit in the Dark Eldar section of his army, so there may be a way around this problem by coming up with a narrative which states that the Harlequins are fighting for the Dark Eldar, and are surprised by the sudden arrival of the Daemons, and stay in the battle only to fight for their kin, turning on the Daemons after the battle.

You could perhaps make an interesting campaign or set of scenarios out of that.  Perhaps you could ask your friend how he justifies Daemons and Harlequins being in the same army?

[Cammerz]

If these daemons belonged to Khorne then it might make a bit of sense if they were both fighting against Slaaneshi daemons. It wouldn't be an alliance of any sort, simply both armies showing up at the same time to fight Slaanesh and both of the armies were solely focused on Slaanesh so they didn't bother attacking each other.
But anything besides this would make no sense whatsoever.

My tip BT, would be either to tell this person to come up with something better, or just fight him, obliterate his army, claim you might have lost if he hadn't used such a cheesy combination and then not write up a battle report because there is no fluff justification.

[Matt1785]

Allies ruling the skies again, more shenanigans that shouldn't be allowed falling through.. but the problem with this, as has been stated is that it's too broad to just say, 'Yeah, they can ally with each other'.  You couldn't start pulling out individual units that can't work with others because it would take too long.  It is feasible that Dark Eldar could be seen fighting 'amongst' a Daemonic onslaught as they could be there at the same time... but I don't know that they would actively be able to support each other.

Not sure you could outrightly deny a match with him though, it is always an option but eh, just play him and see how it goes.  I know I get tired of playing against the ally cheese but I still just enjoy the game... besides, if you're able to beat it... all the better.  Can anyone describe what makes the unit power / cheese though?  Harlequins with Daemons?... maybe he's got Fateweaver in there?