Tau codex??!

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

This dex can only be measured against the 6th ed codexes because that is the standard that applies now.

Oh and you wanted a downside, Railguns. We can only get 3 now, a very big loss in firepower.

No, that's not how it works. 5th edition codexes should still be viable until they get updated to 6th edition.  Otherwise a stupid amount of players may as well not bother until they get an update, which isn't good for business.

Only 3? Oh the horror. You can only get 3 S10 AP1 shots with 6ft range. Such a tragedy. You still have the S8 versions on the Broadsides, Fusion Blasters got an increased range if what you said is right (which I still don't agree with)

Kroot Hounds may well be the same, just cheaper, but they are too cheap. That's my point. They get too much and don't pay enough. I wouldn't mind them having what they have if they paid for it, but they're clearly not and that's what I don't like. Same with Firewarriors gaining an improved weapon thanks to the 6th ed rules, plus Supporting Fire, plus defensive grenades as standard and still being 1pt cheaper.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Many 5th ed codexes ARE still Viable. Orks are still doing well and Guard, well, they are made of cheese so not the best example. But with most armies, how they look in the codex and how they play on the field are very different things.

Losing the Railguns is a big blow for Tau because that is what gave us that edge in firepower, makingheavy vehicles run away. The Broadsides can only glance AV14 now when they used to be an amazing firebase for keeping lanes open by restricting where tanks could actually go. Now we have 3 of them, and 1 will be replaced by Boradsides and depending on how good the Skyray is (I have seen nothing anywhere on it), maybe even another will be replaced.

Considering the Railgun was practically a Tau Trademark and many players relied on them for their long range shooting against heavy targets and fortified structures, it is something that we will have to adapt to.

[InsaneTD]

I'd rather lose the squad the turn it's charged then have the fws survive until the end of my turn.

Edit: GW published the fireblade rules in the last WD. Shas'o statline minus crisis bonuses and a point of leadership. Pulse rifle, fw save, photons and markerlight. Rules, split fire, support fire,  IC and volley fire. Volley only works on rifles and carbines and you have to sit still. If crisis shas'os stayed the same basic points cost then the rumoured 60 for this guy seems spot on.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Many 5th ed codexes ARE still Viable. Orks are still doing well and Guard, well, they are made of cheese so not the best example. But with most armies, how they look in the codex and how they play on the field are very different things.

1 competitive build does not a viable codex make.

To be honest, I don't see the Skyray competing with the Hammerhead unless you don't want velocity trackers on your Broadsides, in which case don't take the Broadsides, take the second Hammerhead. Also, it's important to bear in mind that Railguns got a bloody serious boost in 6th anyway with +2 on the damage table being the minimum, so yes you might have one less, but any you take are so much more effective that it doesn't matter. Hell, against Dark Eldar (for example) you automatically penetrate any transport and get a +3 to the damage roll. Against Guard you need a 2+ to glance their transport. Even against the heaviest armour 2 Hammerheads are pretty much guaranteed a damage result a turn, with that result being a minimum of Stunned if you roll a penetrating. Throw in the extra 6" range on Fusion Blasters you told me about and you should have absolutely no problem taking down tanks without needing 3 Hammerheads.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

But only having 1 Railgun means that you will never hit anything with it, law of averages. If you only have 1 shot that you REALLY need, you will miss

[InsaneTD]

Well I'm only gonna be running one at 1500 so I can fit a catty in. Even with the point drops I won't have enough two and the xv104. That will leave me with one rail gun for reliable av 13+ work. And even with the extra 3" of melta (for two dice), I don't like my crisis suits getting that close.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Missile Spam is going to be the name of the game I think, seeing as Missile Pod Drones are now an option, even if they are only BS2 they can add support for shooting down fliers or extra shots elsewhere.

Catty, 3x Deathrain, 3x Helios will be my Elite loadout, and some drones if they are still useful.

[InsaneTD]

Drones will always be useful. I'll be running something close to that I think. We'll need hammerheads for av 14. Missile pods can't touch it. Any word on the broadside missile pod stats?

[Pottsey]

Many 5th ed codexes ARE still Viable. Orks are still doing well and Guard, well, they are made of cheese so not the best example. But with most armies, how they look in the codex and how they play on the field are very different things.

1 competitive build does not a viable codex make.

To be honest, I don't see the Skyray competing with the Hammerhead unless you don't want velocity trackers on your Broadsides, in which case don't take the Broadsides, take the second Hammerhead. Also, it's important to bear in mind that Railguns got a bloody serious boost in 6th anyway with +2 on the damage table being the minimum, so yes you might have one less, but any you take are so much more effective that it doesn't matter.

It is not really that much different. +2 in 6th is the same odds to blow up a tank, the same odds to blow up a weapon or immobilise as +1 in 5th. I really do not see how you can say it is bloody serious boost. It is a very tiny boost that has little impact.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

Many 5th ed codexes ARE still Viable. Orks are still doing well and Guard, well, they are made of cheese so not the best example. But with most armies, how they look in the codex and how they play on the field are very different things.

1 competitive build does not a viable codex make.

To be honest, I don't see the Skyray competing with the Hammerhead unless you don't want velocity trackers on your Broadsides, in which case don't take the Broadsides, take the second Hammerhead. Also, it's important to bear in mind that Railguns got a bloody serious boost in 6th anyway with +2 on the damage table being the minimum, so yes you might have one less, but any you take are so much more effective that it doesn't matter.

It is not really that much different. +2 in 6th is the same odds to blow up a tank, the same odds to blow up a weapon or immobilise as +1 in 5th. I really do not see how you can say it is bloody serious boost. It is a very tiny boost that has little impact.

Not a serious boost? Oh, ok. I'll remind Tau players of that when the next Hammerhead automatically penetrates a Raider and then destroys it on a 3+. Because of the change to the damage table a +2 to damage normal vehicles is huge in this edition, +3 against open topped is downright excessive. And yet there were still some people insisting (on this forum as well) that the Railgun needed Armourbane or Tank Hunter or a similar further boost.

[Pottsey]

Many 5th ed codexes ARE still Viable. Orks are still doing well and Guard, well, they are made of cheese so not the best example. But with most armies, how they look in the codex and how they play on the field are very different things.

1 competitive build does not a viable codex make.

To be honest, I don't see the Skyray competing with the Hammerhead unless you don't want velocity trackers on your Broadsides, in which case don't take the Broadsides, take the second Hammerhead. Also, it's important to bear in mind that Railguns got a bloody serious boost in 6th anyway with +2 on the damage table being the minimum, so yes you might have one less, but any you take are so much more effective that it doesn't matter.

It is not really that much different. +2 in 6th is the same odds to blow up a tank, the same odds to blow up a weapon or immobilise as +1 in 5th. I really do not see how you can say it is bloody serious boost. It is a very tiny boost that has little impact.

Not a serious boost? Oh, ok. I'll remind Tau players of that when the next Hammerhead automatically penetrates a Raider and then destroys it on a 3+. Because of the change to the damage table a +2 to damage normal vehicles is huge in this edition, +3 against open topped is downright excessive. And yet there were still some people insisting (on this forum as well) that the Railgun needed Armourbane or Tank Hunter or a similar further boost.

How is that any different from last edition? With +1 in 5th  edition it was a 3+  to destroy an open topped vehicle with automatic penetrate for a Raider and a 4+ destroy all other vehicles. Were is this serious boost you talk about? All I see are the same odds. No nerf, no boost just the same odds.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

How is that any different from last edition? With +1 in 5th  edition it was a 3+  to destroy an open topped vehicle with automatic penetrate for a Raider and a 4+ destroy all other vehicles. Were is this serious boost you talk about? All I see are the same odds. No nerf, no boost just the same odds.

Ok maybe boost was the wrong word for it, perhaps advantage would've been more approprioate or edge, but they are already significantly better than most other anti-tank weapon in the game and people still weren't satisfied with that. It's absurd. You really don't need 3 of them in a single army, never mind more than 3. So claiming that a limit of 3 is a downside really just doesn't work.

That being said, given that people weren't satisfied with Railguns being S10 AP1 it's not really surprising that some of the things I'm finding overpowered/bloody stupid aren't viewed in the same light by Tau players.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

And the average vehicle in 40K ISN'T 10 10 10 Open Topped either. Frankly I wouldn't waste a Railgun on it unless I had nothing else to shoot at, when a Missile volley, or even a pulse volley would do the job just aswell. Railguns are for big nasty AV13-14 stuff, where every single shot counts.

ANyway, aren't lances AP2 now? That a big boost from nothing to +1, AND taking 2 away from the AV value down to 12. How many of them do you really need? How many Lascannons does an army NEED to be able to take? If there is no excuse for having 3 Railguns then having more than 5-6 Lascannons is pure cheese!

[InsaneTD]

Last time I heard those armour and such arguements, I thought they got smacked down for their idiocy.

[Carrelio]

I don't understand the argument...

Some things got better... some things got worse.  That's how rule updates go. Are the Tau different now? Yes (and I don't care for it...). Are they overpowered now? Absolutely not!

The new Tau meta sees GW envisioning Tau as the new static gun line.  We NEED markerlight support to function (heavy weapons). Our only transport is over-cost and under-powered. We lost multi-trackers on our vehicles so even our mech builds will only be able to move under 6" a turn.  What's more, due to a change in railguns, we're now going to be having a harder time in taking down high AV tanks... which will make playing keep away even more difficult.

Without high mobility (not speed, just mobility) the old Tau book was dead in the water (I'm worried the new book will be dead boring... and then when codex creep catches up again just outright dead).  If a Tau unit gets caught... by anything... be it a couple gaunts, a space marine, even a couple eldar guardians... they die.  End of story.  To make up for the fact that our only way to effectively prevent this from happening ourselves (by staying mobile) has been removed, GW had to give us something in return.

So what did we get? Some big expensive stuff to draw attention away from the little stuff, some buffs to our 'close combat' units to make them more effective at holding up assaults from hitting our lines, and some buffs to our overall shooting to promote synthesis and further enforce the "stand still and clump together" mentality of the gunline.

That's not any better or any worse, that's just a very different army.  We're now just one great big lumbering S5-S7 monster gunline. If it was as mobile as the previous edition, you'd have something to worry about. As is, we should be the one's worried since we're putting an awful lot of faith in our guns killing everything before it gets to us... something that has never happened in the past.