Would anyone here mind if I used Space Wolf models and Marine models interchangeably, and played both armies? (With the same color scheme.) I realize I won't be playing any of you, most likely, but I want to get a feel for the general opinion.
I'm considering getting the Space Marine codex and a few appropriate models as Allies for my Space Wolves, but I don't want to get any new stock troops models, or use different color schemes, since my Wolves have homebrew fluff/color scheme going on and fluff-wise the Space Marine allies would just be a specialist detachment of the Wolves. But, depending on the list I'm running, I might want to just take 60 Grey Hunters, and use some of the models which were once considered to be Marines and plain Wolves, and visa-versa.
In game, I would be sure to clearly mark who is who, of course, but would anyone be bothered by this?
(In case you were curious: I'd mostly be allying to Marines in order to get Hunters, Stalkers, Stormravens, etc., so my actual Marine troops would be minimal. Though, attaching a Chapter Master on a bike to my Thunderwolves might be a fun deathstar...
Depending on the list and points value, I might even take pure Marines with minimal troops in order to get the three Heavy Support slots, and then take Wolves as normal since it's rare that I take more than 1 Heavy Support, Elite, or Fast Attack anyways, and I probably wouldn't need to go over 2 HQ or 2 Troops.)
There is technically nothing to stop you doing this, but consider the view point of your opponent. If all your models look the same, how are they to know which units are SWs, and so have Counter-Attack, and which are Vanillarines with Combat Tactics and Chapter Tactics? It could also become confusing if units and models from each ally force, get close together and/or mixed up in combat. suddenly you have Vanillarines buddying up with SWs, and vice versa.
A potentially easier solution would be to agree with your opponent before hand that you're going to use the Marine units (Hunters Stalkers, Stormravens) in your SW army, due to them both being Marines and it being rather stupid that Wolves don't have access to those cool toys.
Thats just my thoughts on it. In the end, if you can help you opponent understand what it is you're doing/have done, then you shouldn't have too much trouble going with your original plan :)
As of a week ago I've started adding colored stripes to my model's bases to help distinguish them from other squads anyways. Hopefully, that should be all the distinction required, and I'll try to make it pretty clear pre-game.
On a side-note, is the Hunter worth it? The gun is really good, it looks like, but with only 1 shot is it going to make its points back?
I personally don't have the Codex, but there is a fair amount of discussion of the contents here (http://secondsphere.org/index.php?topic=1465.0) ;)
The hunter CANNOT miss against flyers. Its pretty nasty. It will eventually hit no matter what.
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on January 16, 2014, 10:28:26 PM
The hunter CANNOT miss against flyers. Its pretty nasty. It will eventually hit no matter what.
But with only one shot per turn, will it cause enough damage before it goes the way of the dinosaur? (Without interceptor, a couple Helldrakes or Necron spam still have plenty of time to blow stuff up before it even gets a chance at hurting them.)
You only need to fire it once. The missile will hang around until it hits the target. Depending on how many flyers there are you shouldn't need more than a couple of shots.
Quote from: The Man They Call Jayne on January 16, 2014, 10:33:39 PM
You only need to fire it once. The missile will hang around until it hits the target. Depending on how many flyers there are you shouldn't need more than a couple of shots.
Not unless it flies off the board and goes in to Ongoing Reserves. The Missile loses track there.
The Hunter is okay, it's only S7 if I remember correctly. It's still a bit vulnerable, and won't get many shots off before it dies. Remember that it also must snap-fire against non-Skimmer ground targets. I think a Stalker might be better.
I wouldn't have a problem with using Grey Hunters as Tac Marines, given that they're just beardy Tac marines. That said, I'd need explanations on what's what before the game.
I would agree with Narric when he talks about the allies having the same colour scheme as the main army, however, I certainly wouldnt have issues with you using Tacs as GH's or vice versa.... So long as the model fits the purpose! I mean, I used Khorne Berzerkers for a Crusader squad for a while as I love chain axes!
After thinking about it, my Marines will probably be inverted from the Wolves. (I use a dark grey, light grey, orange scheme for Wolves. Marines will be light grey, dark grey, orange.)
one squad of my melee Crusader squad is all but completely from the Space Wolves pack. Most of the back packs are from Assault Marines and the helmets are mostly from regular Marines and Assault Marines. Both of the Sword Brothers for both of my melee Crusader squads have Space Wolf chests and the backs with the wolf pelts, along with backpacks from the same kit, with the rest of the bits from the Vanguard box.
So, why would I have a problem with it?
The one question that anyone in this kind of situation needs to ask themselves is, "If I were seeing this for the first time, would it be confusing to me?"
I'm afraid that I think the answer to the question is, "Yes." Tactical Marines and Grey Hunters are very similar in terms of appearance and equipment, and you even want to paint them up the same (which is, admittedly, the point, since you're trying to get extra use out of your models by using the newer codex), but to anyone new who you played it would likely be confusing.
Small painting touches or conversions to signify the difference in the models will be noticed by you, but are unlikely to get spotted in the heat of battle by your opponent. Even the inverted colour scheme is probably not that likely to get seen amongst a sea of models.
To be honest, the best thing that I'd do in this situation would be to create some markers. Take a 25mm base and either glue an aquila onto it (from a vehicle kit or something) or paint one on. Paint the marker in a decidedly different colour scheme to your Space Wolves, then put one of each of these markers next to each unit that comes from Codex: Space Marines. The marker won't interfere with the game (since it's just a reminder rather than a model), a full base of a contrasting colour WILL stand out on the battlefield, and it's somewhat in character to have that kind of reminder as to which models don't technically come from your main Codex.
That's a really good idea. I think I'll do that.
To carry on with that concept, I would also use the shoulder pad trim to indicate a different "company" of your army, just like the codex suggests.
Don't forget, its not unknown for Marines Chapters to act alongside other Chapters... I get that you want to use the mini's interchangably, but what's to say you don't use a whole different colour scheme, representing a different chapter?
Quote from: Chris on January 23, 2014, 12:09:25 PM
Don't forget, its not unknown for Marines Chapters to act alongside other Chapters... I get that you want to use the mini's interchangably, but what's to say you don't use a whole different colour scheme, representing a different chapter?
Mainly my fluff. The idea behind my homebrew chapter is that they were completely cut off from the Imperium shortly after the writing of the Codex Astartes and Second Founding. It took twelve centuries of fighting to just get in contact with an Imperial outpost again... Where they discovered that they had been branded as Heretics in their absense.
They don't follow Codex Astartes, train almost exclusively in live action, and win their battles at all cost. Certain companies subsribe to different tactics, but rather than in-fighting or argument, they just consider it a battlefield rivalry and try to one-up each other on the battlefield. Their resources have slowly been dwindling over the millenia, sticking to outposts far from humanity and trying to deflect the enemies who would seek them harm. Therefore, they can't afford to just paint up a new set of armor for a Company who fights differently.
I call 'em the Dragon's Claws.