Crisis weapons and Twin Linking and new FAQ.

[knightperson]

It's worthy of an email to GW to see if this can be added into the FAQ, but I think it's pretty clear. Had the wording been "fire an extra weapon while shooting" or "fire an extra weapon for each shooting attack" or something like that, then the multitracker would apply. However, I don't believe it does. It clearly says "in the shooting phase", and that's not when overwatch happens.

[InsaneTD]

I agree with Knightperson and think it's pretty clear it doesn't work in over watch. I think that would just be two powerful.

[Tactical Genius]

Agreed

[The Man They Call Jayne]

From the rule book:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved LIKE A NORMAL SHOOTING ATTACK /emphasis mine/(albeit one resolved in the enemies assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover and so on."

A NORMAL shooting attack for a Crisis suit involves shooting both weapons, if you have more than one. It even says it is a normal shooting attack done out of sequence. If every rule that applies tot hat unit for shooting applies, which it does "and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover and so on.", then it seems pretty clear that you can fire both weapons.

[Waaaghpower]

From the rule book:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved LIKE A NORMAL SHOOTING ATTACK /emphasis mine/(albeit one resolved in the enemies assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover and so on."

A NORMAL shooting attack for a Crisis suit involves shooting both weapons, if you have more than one. It even says it is a normal shooting attack done out of sequence. If every rule that applies tot hat unit for shooting applies, which it does "and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover and so on.", then it seems pretty clear that you can fire both weapons.

It's resolved like a normal shooting attack, but I'm pretty sure special rules that modify shooting count as 'abnormal.'

[Carrelio]

Overwatch is resolved as a normal shooting attack resolved in the assault phase.  The multi-tracker only works in the shooting phase.  Therefore the multi-tracker RAW does not work during overwatch.  It's cut and dry.

RAI on the other hand is a whole other can of worms, and I could see it going either way.

[Pottsey]

Overwatch is resolved as a normal shooting attack resolved in the assault phase.  The multi-tracker only works in the shooting phase.  Therefore the multi-tracker RAW does not work during overwatch.  It's cut and dry.

RAI on the other hand is a whole other can of worms, and I could see it going either way.

I like the way you say it is cut and dry and does not work while others say it is cut and dry that it does work. Muti-tracker work in each shooting phase and you have a shooting phase in the assault phase following all the rules of the main shooting phase. Each means more then 1.

Everything else that only happens in the shooting phase happens for overwatch. For example you can very clearly only nominate a target for a gun in the shooting phase. Yet due to the rule "LIKE A NORMAL SHOOTING ATTACK" you can nominate a target for a gun for overwatch. How is that any different from muti trackers? Or are you now saying we cannot nominate targets for overwatch?

[The Man They Call Jayne]

It's the "and so on" that makes it vague. For example, I take it to mean that all the normal rules for that units shooting applies. So SMS still don't need LOS and don't give cover, and because Multitrackers are now part of the suits profile, it can fire 2 weapons. If it was an option you had to buy, I would agree it could only fire one weapon. But now Battlesuits can, by their very nature, fire 2 weapons when they shoot.

[Rej]

RAI would support multi-trackers working for overwatch. Why would the multitracker technology just stop working for the suit? Or do they switch it off when they wait for people to assault them....

I've got to agree that RAW supports it as well, the arguments already been stated however. Overwatch=Normal Shooting attack at BS1. Normal shooting attack for suits=multitrackers being used.

[InsaneTD]

It's not listed as a shooting phase for over watch, it's a shooting attack. There are only three phase for each player per turn. Some rules, overwatch for example, allow additional attacks out of their phase but it is not an additional phases. The wording limits the use of multi trackers to the shooting phase. I will admit the actually sentence would flow better with attack instead of phases. The wording is a little odd in the codex.

[Carrelio]

I like the way you say it is cut and dry and does not work while others say it is cut and dry that it does work. Muti-tracker work in each shooting phase and you have a shooting phase in the assault phase following all the rules of the main shooting phase. Each means more then 1.

Everything else that only happens in the shooting phase happens for overwatch. For example you can very clearly only nominate a target for a gun in the shooting phase. Yet due to the rule "LIKE A NORMAL SHOOTING ATTACK" you can nominate a target for a gun for overwatch. How is that any different from muti trackers? Or are you now saying we cannot nominate targets for overwatch?

Tybalt said it well. I thought I made it pretty clear that a shooting attack in the assault phase is not in and of itself a shooting phase... the rules state it very clearly... but the bold really brings it home nicely.

[Pottsey]

I like the way you say it is cut and dry and does not work while others say it is cut and dry that it does work. Muti-tracker work in each shooting phase and you have a shooting phase in the assault phase following all the rules of the main shooting phase. Each means more then 1.

Everything else that only happens in the shooting phase happens for overwatch. For example you can very clearly only nominate a target for a gun in the shooting phase. Yet due to the rule "LIKE A NORMAL SHOOTING ATTACK" you can nominate a target for a gun for overwatch. How is that any different from muti trackers? Or are you now saying we cannot nominate targets for overwatch?

Tybalt said it well. I thought I made it pretty clear that a shooting attack in the assault phase is not in and of itself a shooting phase... the rules state it very clearly... but the bold really brings it home nicely.

No you did not make it clear that it is not a mini shooting phase in the assault phase. If you play it to mean the way you say then you cannot nominate units to make shooting attacks for overwatch or pick targets when two people assault you. In which case over watch is pointless as you can never fire. Also overwatch says shoot as a normal attack, muti-trackers are a normal attack so you get them. A bonus that only applies in the shooting phase still applies for overwatch due to the rule "shoot as normal". You look at what you would normally get than apply that.

Forgetting the "as normal" rule for a second. Nominating which unit is making a shooting attack is in the shooting phase. If overwatch is not a shooting phase then how do you nominate who is making a shooting attack?

EDIT: What about Look Out Sir against shooting attacks which happens in the shooting phase. Are you saying you cannot Look Out Sir against overwatch as well?

[knightperson]

I like the way you say it is cut and dry and does not work while others say it is cut and dry that it does work. Muti-tracker work in each shooting phase and you have a shooting phase in the assault phase following all the rules of the main shooting phase. Each means more then 1.

No, you don't. You have a shooting action in the assault phase, but that does not make it a shooting phase. The three phases of Move, Shoot, Assault is a core concept of the game, and while strange things might happen within those phases, actions might happen out of order occasionally, that doesn't change the existence of the three phases. "Works in each shooting phase" simply means you can use the multitracker on turn 5 as well as on turn 1, 2, 3, and 4: nothing more. I suppose if there was some way for you to fire in your opponent's shooting phase there would be an argument for using the multitracker then, but not in an assault phase. Overwatch happens in an Assault phase, the multitracker specifies that it modifies the rules for the shooting phase (not shooting action, see above), therefore the multitracker doesn't work in overwatch.

[Pottsey]

I like the way you say it is cut and dry and does not work while others say it is cut and dry that it does work. Muti-tracker work in each shooting phase and you have a shooting phase in the assault phase following all the rules of the main shooting phase. Each means more then 1.

No, you don't. You have a shooting action in the assault phase, but that does not make it a shooting phase. The three phases of Move, Shoot, Assault is a core concept of the game, and while strange things might happen within those phases, actions might happen out of order occasionally, that doesn't change the existence of the three phases. "Works in each shooting phase" simply means you can use the multitracker on turn 5 as well as on turn 1, 2, 3, and 4: nothing more. I suppose if there was some way for you to fire in your opponent's shooting phase there would be an argument for using the multitracker then, but not in an assault phase. Overwatch happens in an Assault phase, the multitracker specifies that it modifies the rules for the shooting phase (not shooting action, see above), therefore the multitracker doesn't work in overwatch.

It does not need to be a shooting phase for muti-trackers to activate. Overwatch says you my fire as you would normally in the shooting phase. So you look at how the unit would normally fire in the shooting phase then apply that to the assault phase.  muti trackers would normally apply in the shooting phase so they cross over to overwatch via that rule.

[Carrelio]

No you did not make it clear that it is not a mini shooting phase in the assault phase. If you play it to mean the way you say then you cannot nominate units to make shooting attacks for overwatch or pick targets when two people assault you. In which case over watch is pointless as you can never fire. Also overwatch says shoot as a normal attack, muti-trackers are a normal attack so you get them. A bonus that only applies in the shooting phase still applies for overwatch due to the rule "shoot as normal". You look at what you would normally get than apply that.

Forgetting the "as normal" rule for a second. Nominating which unit is making a shooting attack is in the shooting phase. If overwatch is not a shooting phase then how do you nominate who is making a shooting attack?

EDIT: What about Look Out Sir against shooting attacks which happens in the shooting phase. Are you saying you cannot Look Out Sir against overwatch as well?

What are you talking about?  Clearly you are not reading... so let me overview the two points you haven't read.

Overwatch is resolved as a normal shooting attack resolved in the assault phase.  The multi-tracker only works in the shooting phase.  Therefore the multi-tracker RAW does not work during overwatch.  It's cut and dry.

RAI on the other hand is a whole other can of worms, and I could see it going either way.

That can only be made more clear by bold facing that it's a normal shooting attack in the assault phase, and that the multi-tracker only works in the shooting phase.

Very clear.

Second, and this one really throws me for a loop... where does it say that precision shot, picking which assaulting unit to overwatch, or Look Out Sir must be performed in the shooting phase?  None of those things even mention the shooting phase in the rules, and thus are entirely unaffected by an interpretation that sees overwatch as a shooting attack made outside of the shooting phase.

Finally, in regards to your last point;

It does not need to be a shooting phase for muti-trackers to activate. Overwatch says you my fire as you would normally in the shooting phase. So you look at how the unit would normally fire in the shooting phase then apply that to the assault phase.  muti trackers would normally apply in the shooting phase so they cross over to overwatch via that rule.

The rules of the Tau codex specifically state shooting phase, not shooting attack. So yes, it does need to be the shooting phase for the multi-tracker to activate, it's the rule in the codex.

Now, maybe this will be FAQed because it is a disadvantage for taking suits with 2 weapons... but currently, RAW, the multi-tracker only activated in the shooting phase.