Coming Soon? 40k 7th Edition

[Narric]

Unlike Fantasy however, everybody has a "Ward Save" in the form of Deny the Witch rolls. This may not be much, but it is technically more than Fantasy's defences against magic.

It would be better if Deny the Witch had more buffs and bains. Why don't most Eldar shields confer a boost to the models DtW roll, for instance?

Another counter to Psykers in 40k is that volume of fire can take them out, or simply enough Precision shots to take out the Psyker more reliably.

[Mabbz]

I'm more opposed to the fluff aspect of it. In my mind at least, psykers are supposed to be really rare. Obviously some armies like Chaos and Eldar will have plenty, but I dislike the idea that they are common enough that they deserve their own phase. Everyone can move, most models can shoot and everyone can fight in melee. Having a phase just for a few models doesn't seem right to me. It's be like having a separate phase for sorting out reserves, or a dogfighting phase for flyers.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

I am hoping that the non Psyker armies will get some kind of resistance buff or something like that.

[Narric]

I am hoping that the non Psyker armies will get some kind of resistance buff or something like that.

Shouldn't Necrons technically be immune to the entire Telepathy Lore?

And I agree. I know Dwarfs had an improved base Ward Save against Magic attacks (not sure what the latest army book says on that though)

But if you think about it, Eldar should be even more resilient than them all due to their natural psychic leanings. I'm sure everyone on the Craft World would have gone through training to protect their minds, especially when you're a race who have Daemons from the warp hunting you down for the rest of eternity....

I'm more opposed to the fluff aspect of it. In my mind at least, psykers are supposed to be really rare. Obviously some armies like Chaos and Eldar will have plenty, but I dislike the idea that they are common enough that they deserve their own phase. Everyone can move, most models can shoot and everyone can fight in melee. Having a phase just for a few models doesn't seem right to me. It's be like having a separate phase for sorting out reserves, or a dogfighting phase for flyers.

Most race do only have access to a handful of Psykers. The trouble is unlike Fantasy they have access to a large amount of armour and survivability upgrades....

One issue will be Grey Knight players essentially have an entire phase dedicated to them messing other peoples plans up, rather than just having a othersized selection of Psychic and anti-psychic weaponry and wargear.....

[Pilum]

Actually Mabbz, I'm quite comfortable with "common" psykers in 40k - because the environment we use them in (the battlefield) is one where you can bet yer butt ALL races are going to throw in ANYTHING that might give them an edge.

Now that's just 40k. As in "the game of far flung battles in the distant future". Not Necromunda. Not as a role play setting (Dark Heresy gets a limited pass here with the nature of the standard, assumed group). Maybe not so much Epic save as a modifier to command rolls or some sort of low key effect like that. But for "the key moment of a wider conflict"? Yeah. I can buy that.

More "game-y", I keep forgetting that some powers are cast at the very start of the turn, not when you finally get round to activating the psyker's model (doh! The perils of playing multiple rulesets!) so a separate phase suits me quite well!

Narric, this may be my bias talking, but I like those ideas. But then I have a soft spot for the old systems of Eldar having their own unique powers, nothing from any more 'mainstream' lores but they always work. Always. No psi points. No test. "I use <power>". And lo, it came to pass. I doubt we'll go back to that though - I get the feeling that the current zeitgeist is to try to break up 'death stars' like JetSeer. Maybe if warlocks and Farseers also went right back to 1st and were barely capable civvies with really tasty powers and kit but then that goes against the other spirit that "character = Conan".

(Wider musing) I think the catch is that for various gameplay and commercial reasons, it's very difficult to make factions as dominant as they should be in certain areas according to the mythos. You don't want to unwittingly spend the cash on a Somali warlord's gang to find everyone else is rocking ultramodern NATO stuff. I mean, take Necrons (and to a limited extent post-Fall, Eldar), you're facing opponents who once REALLY let the galaxy burn. A reason why, as horrible to face as they were, the limited necron fleet in BFG felt oddly right - with the added horror that, at first, these were just light cruisers and frigates (iirc), what the heck were the large capital ships capable of? I suppose we could hand wave this as (mentioned above with the psychics) what we play is when it doesn't go nicely to plan for either side.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar don't have any Psykers at all.

However, everyone else is capable of bringing a couple along at least, so the Psychic Phase will see use.

[Charistoph]

Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar don't have any Psykers at all.

However, everyone else is capable of bringing a couple along at least, so the Psychic Phase will see use.

Black Templars, too.  But all have at least one method of bring a Psyker or two along via Allies.

[Narric]

Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar don't have any Psykers at all.

However, everyone else is capable of bringing a couple along at least, so the Psychic Phase will see use.

Necrons are machines and the last trace of an Organic unit were removed when Pariahs become the Preatorians (or whichever unit they techniclly became). This is why I say Necrons should technically be immune to Telepathy. The more independant constructs are essentially just more complex machines with greater memory and improved processes, rather than an organic brain that would be suseptable to telepathy.

Black Templars, too.  But all have at least one method of bring a Psyker or two along via Allies.

It was my understanding that even the latest incarnation of BTs couldn't take Psyker allies, with perhaps the sole exception being Grey Knights.

[Wargamer]

As long as Psykers don't become more powerful I'm fine with the Psychic Phase; it is kind of irksome to have to remember you cast certain powers before movement, then others in the shooting phase or whathaveyou.

[InsaneTD]

Tau, Necrons and Dark Eldar don't have any Psykers at all.

However, everyone else is capable of bringing a couple along at least, so the Psychic Phase will see use.

According to old lore, Kroot can be psykers, but this is old 3rd ed stuff. They also had a race of psykers as allies in BFG.

[Charistoph]

.

Black Templars, too.  But all have at least one method of bring a Psyker or two along via Allies.

It was my understanding that even the latest incarnation of BTs couldn't take Psyker allies, with perhaps the sole exception being Grey Knights.

That was the last codex, but some still follow it, including myself.  The current lore is a little less passionate and more pragmatic.

As for rules, we just can't purchase Librarians for our Detachments.

[Cammerz]

Well, I've pre-ordered my copy, I was hesitant but then I found Total Wargamer selling it for £35 instead of GW's £50.

Back to the topic of psykers, I always saw it as the realm of fantasy and I don't like the idea of it becoming a big part of 40k. I'm fine with it being there in small doses but I don't want it to effectively become a requirement. My Astras don't have any psykers, neither do my Chaos, plus I have Tau. Are all three armies destined to lose simply because I have no psykers/psychic defense?

Also something that I don't think I've seen here yet, the webcomic 'Wobbly Model Syndrome' has suggested that Space Marines and Tau are no longer BFFs and now the only groups of 'Battle Brothers' are; 'the Imperials', 'Eldar and Dark Eldar' and 'the Ruinous Powers of Chaos'. That won't affect my current CSM-Daemon alliance but it could mess things up for other people (if this is it then it removes a lot of support for Tau-Eldar armies).

[CoffeeGrunt]

Psychic powers are actually much harder to get off now, and Blessings can be denied as well. If anything, that's a bit of a nerf for Psykers.

[BigToof]

I agree that Psychic powers are actually going to be harder to get off, as you now need at least 1 4+ roll to get a power off, which means that you'll need to roll 2 dice from your pool (on average) to get it off.  Your opponent will have a pretty good chance of denying powers that he really doesn't want going off.

The big armies that I can see dominating the psychic phase are Daemons, as the Horrors give levels based on their unit size, and all of the Greater Daemons can take levels, and Grey Knights as most units are level 1.  Eldar can also do it if they take Seer Councils, and it might actually be worth taking walking double councils if things get pretty hairy out there.  Since it appears that if you get Primaris free if you take all of your powers from a singe discipline, all of the level 1's get two powers, which is pretty nice.

In terms of fluff, this is actually sort of nice, as it really makes the three big psychic heavy armies feel like they can do something special.  If the powers stay about the same, then it doesn't look like things are going to be TOO bad, as none are really that dangerous.  Although, seeing 20 dice thrown into the Tzeench primaris would be pretty hilarious, if only for the assured chance that the unit will not be doing too well after perils..

Oh, and I think this edition will also be the return of tank shock, as you can now wrest control of objectives using vehicles!  And troop vehicles can grab objectives from other non-troops...

Best,
-BT

[Narric]

A 50page preview is available for viewing, if people are interested:
http://dedard.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/7th-edition-preview.html