Heavy Infantry are the Specialised troopers, and are often only available in smaller numbers then Light Infantry. They have the pick of equipment, or sometimes, are Heavy Infantry just becuase of their size.
Dates:
- Entries can be submitted via a PM to Narric (Me) (http://secondsphere.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=177) from April 3rd until May 29th.
- Voting will take place from May 30th until June 5th.
- Winners shall be announced on June 6th.
Prizes:
1st Place = Dice & £10 e-voucher to spend on products from Anvil Industries (http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/)
2nd Place = Dice & One Bag of Mixed Bits, supplied by Blitz Box (http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/)
3rd Place = Dice
Along with Physical prizes, Award Seals will also be granted to the Top 3 Entrants.
And here is a picture of the Custom Second Sphere Dice up for grabs;
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e146/Eddievedda/---/S7300337.jpg)
Rules:
- A model/unit of Heavy may not be or include a Named character
- The Unit must be Game-legal. This includes any Transports that the unit would normally be assigned.
- Up to Three Picture may be submit. You are limited to 800 x 600 pixels for picture dimensions.
- Depending on numbers, Voting may be split in Master and Novice tiers. This is decided by a panel of Judges, not a single person.
- All Models must be fully Painted.
For the purposes of this Contest, Heavy Infantry are classed as:
- Any Warhammer 40k Elites Choice or Heavy Support choice, with the Unit Type "Infantry" only.
- Any unit with a 4+ or better Armour Save in Warhammer Fantasy
- Models from other games systems will be decided upon Me (Narric) recieving them via PM (you do have the right to challenge the decision).
Good luck to everyone who is planning on entering. :D
Definitely have an entry for this, and if the weather is still useful then I will be taking pictures and entering within the week. :D
Really want some dice. :P
- Will
ive got my Heavy set as well. I just need to paint them. /sigh guess i will work on them once I finish this other project i have going. lol
So many choices... War of the Roses Men-at-Arms, Imperial Roman Legionaries, Chaos Warriors, Black Orcs, Saurus Warriors...
So... Stormtroopers count for Heavy Infantry?
Quote from: The Allfather on April 04, 2013, 02:46:05 AM
So... Stormtroopers count for Heavy Infantry?
My understanding is that if it counts as an 'Elite' choice in 40k, or whatever system you are playing, and as long as it is not a named character, you are good to go. hope this helped some AF.
I guess I completely glazed over that part of the rules. Its been a long night. :P
we all do that sometimes. :D cant wait to see your entry AF.
Quote from: The Allfather on April 04, 2013, 02:46:05 AM
So... Stormtroopers count for Heavy Infantry?
Uhm. I'm not sure how to rule this.
When I imagine Heavy Infantry, I imagine units like Terminators and Grotesques, to name a few units.
Storm Troopers, though armed with powerful gear, are more Light Infantry in my mind.
Thats just my opinion though :-\
what about Sternguard Veterans?
Quote from: Osiris on April 04, 2013, 06:48:33 AM
what about Sternguard Veterans?
-_- I hate my job now XD
I'm half tempted to change the rule to suitable models on 40mm bases or larger.
Or I can be a cruel task master, and demand the Sternguard be Artscale.
Wikipedia to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_infantry
yes, but Finn, he also states in rules "Heavy Infantry" can be a Model or Squad from the Elites section of Warhammer 40k". :P
which is what might be slightly confusing to others. I do see where you are coming from, and would even agree with you.
As narric stated, he may have to change the rule to be based on model base size for the most part. or even make it all inclusive to the elites section of whatever system one wants to bring in.
I would have said that you would have to look at the regular infantry for that army, then compare.
Imperial Guardsman - Light
Stormtrooper - Heavy (Bigger gun, better armour ect)
Space Marine - Light
Devestator/Sternguard/Vanguard/Terminator - Heavy
And so on.
Otherwise ALL IG guys are going to look Light next to Space Marines.
Quote from: Osiris on April 04, 2013, 07:28:25 AM
yes, but Finn, he also states in rules "Heavy Infantry" can be a Model or Squad from the Elites section of Warhammer 40k". :P
which is what might be slightly confusing to others. I do see where you are coming from, and would even agree with you.
As narric stated, he may have to change the rule to be based on model base size for the most part. or even make it all inclusive to the elites section of whatever system one wants to bring in.
Don't misquote me.
That section is for newer player/contestants, who may not know what units would be classed as "Heavy Infantry." Check the section again. Its seperate from the rules.
I had tried to get the committee to help with the definition of a "Heavy Infantry" unit or model, but never recieved any feedback.
Here is an example of a Heavy Infantry unit, in my mind
Loyal & Heretical Terminators (Inc any Grey Knight Termies), Dark Eldar Grotesques, Tau Battlesuits, Ork Meganobs, Khorne Bloodcrushers, Slaanesh Fiends, Beasts of Nurgle, Eldar Dark Reapers (
Note, a Heavy Support unit), IG Ogryns, Necron Immortals, Wraiths, and Destroyers, Tyranid Warriors (
Note. a Troops choice), Raveners, Biovores, Pyrovores, And the Tyranid Elites Section.
For Fantasy this would probably be:
Beastman Minotaurs, Lizardmen Temple Guard, Kroxigors, Any Ogre unit from the Ogre Kingdoms, Ork Trolls (of any variety), Skaven Rat Ogres, Toombs Kings Ushabti, Necropolis Knights, Sapulchral Stalkers, Bone Gants, Vampire counts Vargheists, Crypt horrors, WoC Dragon Ogres, Chaos Ogres, Chaos Trolls, Skullcrushers of Khorne, Wood Elf Tree Kin.
From that long ass list, I've literally just made by trailing through GWs product catalogue, I'm certain everybody can find the aspect that defines a Heavy Infantry unit.
Now, I need to get ready for an interview.
my apologies.
wellp, guess im changing the models i plan on using then. :P
Quote from: Narric on April 04, 2013, 06:41:36 AM
Quote from: The Allfather on April 04, 2013, 02:46:05 AM
So... Stormtroopers count for Heavy Infantry?
Uhm. I'm not sure how to rule this.
When I imagine Heavy Infantry, I imagine units like Terminators and Grotesques, to name a few units.
Storm Troopers, though armed with powerful gear, are more Light Infantry in my mind.
Thats just my opinion though :-\
I was just wondering, I've got other things I can do instead. I was just looking for an excuse to finish some of my stormtroopers! :P
Argh, this is frustrating.
I've had two orders in mind to get from Anvil Industries. One was enough parts for some uniquely fluffed Sternguard counts as I want to put together for a friend. The other was enough parts to make a bunch of tough-as-nails Autocannon devastators for my DIY chapter.
I ordered the first of these, and wanted to enter it into the contest. But now it seems like you're saying they're not a valid entry, but the second order sitting in my wishlist would have been? :facepalm001:
Quote from: Lord Sotek on April 04, 2013, 03:10:22 PM
Argh, this is frustrating.
I've had two orders in mind to get from Anvil Industries. One was enough parts for some uniquely fluffed Sternguard counts as I want to put together for a friend. The other was enough parts to make a bunch of tough-as-nails Autocannon devastators for my DIY chapter.
I ordered the first of these, and wanted to enter it into the contest. But now it seems like you're saying they're not a valid entry, but the second order sitting in my wishlist would have been? :facepalm001:
Uhm, Devastators aren't a valid entry either I'm afraid ^_^;;
Quote from: The Allfather on April 04, 2013, 12:51:08 PM
I was just wondering, I've got other things I can do instead. I was just looking for an excuse to finish some of my stormtroopers! :P
Pretty much anything like that would be valid for the Light Infantry contest, coming up in May. Judging by the response to this thread, there is going to be an overwelling number of potential entrants to that contest :P
will this also be split into a Godlike painters group and us lesser mortals painting group?
Quote from: Chocomel on April 04, 2013, 05:03:04 PM
will this also be split into a Godlike painters group and us lesser mortals painting group?
Only if we get enough entrants :P
I kind of have a figure in my head for the number of entrants I'd want MINIMUM before I start breaking into into Master/Novice.
If I had acquired a larger number of prizes, I may have also considered a middle tier, or "Intermediate" set of entrants. However, thats probably talk for further in time, when this forum is more active, and games companies are more inclined to offer most excellent prizes for us to use.
Hmm, I might enter a Heavy Warbeast from Hordes. I've been working on a couple of those recently.
Sweet! Does a heavy count? Or would we be talking Light beasts/jacks for this?
For reference for non-warmachine guys, we're talking, average infantry on 30mm bases:
http://privateerpress.com/files/products/31048_TrencherInfantryRifleGrenadier_WEB.jpg
Light jacks/beasts on 40mm bases:
http://privateerpress.com/files/products/31089-Charger09WEB.jpg
Heavy jacks/beasts on 50mm:
http://privateerpress.com/files/products/31062_Cyclone_WEB.jpg
Obviously it's up to the comp guys on this, but is there a mninimum size for the unit.. does single model (beast/jack) count?
If it were me I'd be tempted to say any WM/H unit choice not on a 30mm base. which includes all the cavalary, etc. However, this is far from perfect as these guys look very like heavy infantry but are only on the smaller base:
(http://privateerpress.com/files/products/31099_Stormguard_WEB_0.jpg)
In summary: jeez this is hard to define!
oh! oh! movement value!
In WM/H, any unit with a SPD < 6 OR a base larger than 30mm is heavy? Even then there might be some special cases!
Ah crap.. except I forgot dwarves who are all slow. I give up!
This is why I tried to go by size of model :P
In regards to those Warmachine Models, I can tell you the Cyclone, and Charger Warjacks would be elligible to the Heavy Infantry Contest, with the Stormguard and Grenadier examples of Light Infantry.
You're right, heavy beasts or jacks are probably more appropriate as heavy support than anything else. How about this for a conversion chart?
40k Warmahordes
Troops small-base units
HQ warcaster / warlock
Elite light warbeasts and warjacks, multiwound solos that don't fit elsewhere
Fast Attack cavalry or anything with flight
Heavy Support heavy beasts and warjacks, and anything else on a large base
Superheavies gargantuans and colossals
Character/ squad leader unit attachments. Solos with a command effect on another unit could also go here
For the current discussion, I would say that light infantry is a unit of single-wound models on small bases, while heavies could be medium base and/or multi-wound.
The trouble with that chart KP, is that it still assumes 40k FOC related Contests. The way I've tried to put the contests forward now, is to have Like Models competing against Like Models.
For example:
XV8 Suits and Terminator Army, being compared to a Heavy Warjack, or O-Yoroi Kidobutai (http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/o-yoroi-kidobutai/) in the current Heavy Infantry contest.
Fire Warriors and Power Armoured Marines, being compared to Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadiers, and Haramaki Zensenbutai (http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/haramaki-zensenbutai/) in the Light Infantry Contest up next soon.
I'll have to look over the next few contests, to try and give better examples of what the Contest is for.
Would the Chosen from the Dark Vengeance Box count?
Please say yes :'(
Quote from: Begel Dverl on April 07, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
Would the Chosen from the Dark Vengeance Box count?
Please say yes :'(
They are just Space Marines with a lot of corruption, so no..
Quote from: Narric on April 07, 2013, 09:00:36 PM
The trouble with that chart KP, is that it still assumes 40k FOC related Contests. The way I've tried to put the contests forward now, is to have Like Models competing against Like Models.
For example:
XV8 Suits and Terminator Army, being compared to a Heavy Warjack, or O-Yoroi Kidobutai (http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/o-yoroi-kidobutai/) in the current Heavy Infantry contest.
Fire Warriors and Power Armoured Marines, being compared to Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadiers, and Haramaki Zensenbutai (http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/haramaki-zensenbutai/) in the Light Infantry Contest up next soon.
I'll have to look over the next few contests, to try and give better examples of what the Contest is for.
Not an easy thing when we're dealing with abstract systems that don't have much basis in reality. Core concepts only take you so far.
I can't think of an answer which doesn't sound like a snarky remark -_-
I guess if there were more people on the committee who play different game systems, and can say what is Heavy and what is Light Infantry, or what units equate to what 40k/Fantasy FOC :P
Heavy Infantry, in terms of Historical Ancients and Fantasy, is pretty much any infantry unit in "heavy" armor but the line is blurred when you have actual heavy-weight units like Monstrous Infantry coming into the picture. The line is blurred even further with the introduction of gunpowder and later solid projectile weapons where heavy armor is made almost obsolete and the term of heavy infantry is further revised to infantry units carrying infantry support weapons i.e. "heavy weapons" and are typical slow to move and redeploy but mechanization solved that problem.
If historicals or fantasy context, any unit in heavy armor e.g. chainmail and platemail , and Ogre-size units should be considered heavy infantry.
For more modern context, infantry carrying "heavy weapons", should be considered heavy infantry.
In the context of Sci-Fi especially Warhammer 40,000, Space Marines (even the Chaos variety) are indeed Heavy Infantry be the sheer merit of being encased in Power Armor, carrying Bolters or equipped with a heavy weapon that would need TWO regular humans to carry and operate properly, and being mostly mechanized. Even those in 4+ Armor (Carapace Armor, 'Eavy Armor, whatever those Tau Fire Warriors are wearing) should also be considered heavy infantry.
I've got a model I want to enter but I can find enough bits to finish it. :(
Since every faction of every game has a slightly different idea to what constitutes heavy infantry, why not just go by that?
Heavy infantry could be classed as any infantry unit with a higher than average armour save than their faction's base line grunt .
For all Space Marine players that would mean any model on foot with a better than +3 armour save, while an Imperial Guard player would be free to enter Storm Troopers because to him anything with a +4 save would be his version of heavy infantry. I know for a fact that every Warmachine/Hordes faction has a nice standardised unit of infantry that can be used as a baseline comparison to work out whether another unit from that faction would be considered heavy infantry or not.
Easy as pie.
I guess that works, but remember armies like Grey Knights have Terminators in their Troops by default, don't they?
That ruling could possibly work for most non-GW game systems, but for GW, I reckon we'd have to just go by Armour Save.
So best way to write this.....
"A Heavy Inf unit/model has a higher Armour save (or equivalent) then the unit/model's Faction's rank-&-file grunt."
Maybe I should've done Heavy & Light Inf contest at the same time, :P
Quote from: Narric on April 30, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
Maybe I should've done Heavy & Light Inf contest at the same time, :P
But Narric, what about the Medium infantry contest? :P
Quote from: Paradoxrifts on April 30, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
Quote from: Narric on April 30, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
Maybe I should've done Heavy & Light Inf contest at the same time, :P
But Narric, what about the Medium infantry contest? :P
Don't even start that XD
But... what counts then? In my book heavy infantry is... Well, it kinda though.
A question from a newbie if it is allowed. Is the contest for Sci-fi only or can you enter fantasy models.
I would say an Empire greatsword of footknight is definitely heavy infantry, for example.
But on another note, does Ork nobz count as heavy infantry if being Ard Boyz packing Eavy armour? Or is that still "light"? :P
If so, I have too pass this one up and wait for the light infantry. ;)
Quote from: Ra´Meses on April 30, 2013, 04:47:50 PM
But... what counts then? In my book heavy infantry is... Well, it kinda though.
I would say an Empire greatsword of footknight is definitely heavy infantry, for example.
But on another note, does Ork nobz count as heavy infantry if being Ard Boyz packing Eavy armour? Or is that still "light"? :P
If so, I have too pass this one up and wait for the light infantry. ;)
I reckon Fantasy is easier to specify. I reckon a "Greatswordsman" would be considered Heavy Infantry in regardsto the rank-&-file soldiers of The Empire, both by armour, and by weaponry.
I'm not too in-the-know of Ork army building, so forgive me if my assumptions are off on them.
To my knowledge, Ork Nobs are both "Squad Leaders" and a sort of Warboss "Retinue." I'd consider a Squad of Nobz as "Heavy" whilst a Ork Nobs leading some Boyz would be considered "Light" due to the squad as a whole, rather than the idividuals it is compossed of.
Does that make sense?
Ard Boyz then (again assuming) are more heavily armoured by default, and so again, would be "Heavy" compared to "Light" armoured Boyz.
However, don't Boyz have the option for improved armour? Which sort of throws my previous assumptions out the window. But if we only consider Standard Wargear as point of comparison, then upgrades are irrelevent.
My head hurts XD
If you want a more 1-2-1 discussion, then don't hessitate to message me. I'll have a look at the model/unit, and give you a distinct verdict.
Quote from: Ra´Meses on April 30, 2013, 04:47:50 PMA question from a newbie if it is allowed. Is the contest for Sci-fi only or can you enter fantasy models.
The Contests are open to near enough any Wargaming game system. Individual Contests are limited to a Title category, like Warlord (HQ, General, Big Boss, etc), and Heavy Infantry (what we're currently discussing).
Hope I've helped you Ra ^_^;;
Just to follow up on what I already said, if it were up to me I would allow ordinary grunts with upgraded armour saves into the heavy infantry category but only so long as some conversion work had been done to represent the upgraded armour save.
So plastic Cadians that have seen some conversion work so that they resemble the Cadian Stormtroopers in carapace armour, or Ork Boyz who look like they've swallowed an acme magnet and then wandered through a junkyard would be cool in my book.
The official word from on high may vary somewhat though. :P
I think that would confuse matters. If we stick to non-upgraded stats, it should be easier to figure out whats Heavi Inf and not.
By the way guys, you only have two more weeks to submit your entries.
Bother. I'm probably not going to get enough
Spoiler
Warpborn Skinwalkers
painted in that time.
EDIT: wait, game legal only requires 3 of the little buggers. I might be able to pull that off!
Only 12 days left!!! And I've had no entries D:
You've had mine. :P
- Will
Am such a hobby butterfly I've started several heavy infantry models and finished none. So yeah.. probs not happening really.
Good luck to all though!
Quote from: Will's on Fire on May 10, 2013, 12:17:44 PM
You've had mine. :P
- Will
Oops my bad ^_^;;
In that case, you're going to win uncontested :P
Though don't celebrate until someone else enters XD
Hmm... for a guaranteed 2nd place, I might just enter my first ever contest.
Come on guys. Enter! I enjoy being beaten. :P
Maybe ask to have the top right news to be changed to something about the heavy infantry contest?
- Will
So.... I have a good dozen armies, and outside of my ogres (which I don't want to enter) I don't have any heavy infantry I can think of. Do dreadnoughts and dreadnought types count? Or is that heavy support?
Quote from: Deraj on May 10, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
So.... I have a good dozen armies, and outside of my ogres (which I don't want to enter) I don't have any heavy infantry I can think of. Do dreadnoughts and dreadnought types count? Or is that heavy support?
I was hoping to save Dreadnoughts at those alike be left until the "Big Guns" (ok yes, technically HS :P) Contest.
However, as we're currently short on entries, I don't mind including any unit that fulfils the Elites slot.
Gosh, the things I let slip for you guys :P
Quote from: Mabbz on May 10, 2013, 03:59:13 PM
Hmm... for a guaranteed 2nd place, I might just enter my first ever contest.
Its only garaunteed Second Place if your entry doesn't look that good XD
And if we only get three entries, the decision will go to the committee, not community.
I feel freakin' deamonic with practically preasuring ypou guys to enter TT_TT
(Ignoring the fact I am a Fire-deamon :P)
Well, we have what, 10 days now? Tuesday Im going to my lgs, so Ill see if I can find a unit of 'heavy infantry' that suits my fancy and paint it up in the remaining... couple of days :P
Quote from: Narric on May 10, 2013, 05:45:12 PM
Quote from: Mabbz on May 10, 2013, 03:59:13 PM
Hmm... for a guaranteed 2nd place, I might just enter my first ever contest.
Its only garaunteed Second Place if your entry doesn't look that good XD
Like I said guaranteed 2nd :-[. I'm not much of a painter, and most of my heavy infantry were painted years ago, when I was even worse than I am now. And my girlfriend has my paints, so I can't do them up right now :P.
Hmm... Actually, I wonder if I could convince her to make an account and enter...
Thinking about making a push to get something finished tonight.. how's everyone else doing?
Well, I still only have one entrant :P
ah never mind my photos were rubbish and i'm away from tomorrow until the deadline, next time!
I just tried to take a few photos, but it turns out the only camera I have is on my phone, and it is awful. As such I will not be entering either, since I don't think pictures that show a vague blur would be accepted :P
Mabbz, wait until better lighting and see if that helps. :)
Maybe the deadline for this should be extended? See if we can get some more entries. :P The HQ contest was so promising.
- Will
I'm afraid I left my mini's in the wrong city recently. I'll be back to them in a few days, but not in time to polish off the paint job before the deadline.
we're all soo organised ::)
If you are going to extend the definition to cover Elites then I may be able to enter my XV25s if they are acceptable?
XV25's were already exceptable :P
And yeah, I might as well keep to the FOC of 40k for these, with other games suitabley ported into the framework. I think its works best, as everybody is already familiar with the format.
If I get enough unique deadline extension requests, I will consider extending the deadline by seven (7) days. By my guess, this should be enough time.
My girlfriend just got a good new camera so I can dig out some of my painted models, Im sure I have a few that will count as heavy infantry.
Well, today would have been the final day for Entries. More on that in a moment.
For final clarification in this Contest, models for the Heavy Inf contest are:
- Any Warhammer 40k Elites Choice or Heavy Support choice, with the Unit Type "Infantry" only. (Units that become Elites by special rule are allowed)
- Any unit with a 4+ or better Armour Save in Warhammer Fantasy
Models from other games systems will be decided upon me recieving them via PM (you do have the right to challenge the decision). If your model/unit isn't entered into the Heavy Inf Contest, then it will be entered into Light Inf, unless the Entrant requests otherwise.
I am extending the deadline by seven (7) days, to allow people to make final alterations to models and/or unit selection, and to allow everyone to see the most recent decision for this contest.
Hope to see a full inbox for this. Can't wait to see what comes in :)
[edit]
Fixed some terrible wording. Hopefully this actually makes sense.
I'll be updating both this Contests OP, and the OP for the Light Inf Contest.