So, after finding out that a digital Sisters of Battle codex was released, I finally picked up a copy. And... Well... It didn't get any worse? Sort of? It clarified some rules confusions and got rid of some of the 5th to 6th edition problems, but it really isn't any better in terms of gameplay.
We got some cool artifacts, and the warlord chart is neat.
Saint Celestine got worse. She is easier to revive, but you only get one shot at it and you can only revive her once.
Uriah Jacobus changed, but I wouldn't call him any worse or better. He's pretty nifty, overall.
Kyranov or whoever is... Gone.
Cannonesses and Command Squads are better, simply by points reduction. Still not that great, though, since they can't put out a lot of damage.
PRIESTS! Are now fantastic. For 25 points, they're a steal.
Celestians are better, but they're still a S3 T3 close combat unit.
Sisters Repentia lost Feel No Pain, (They get it at 3+, but only in the assault phase, when you use their act of faith,) and are therefore immensely easy to shoot before they cause any damage.
Battle sisters are... Cheaper. Not a lot else to say about them. (With squad sizes of 5, they now have a fun tactic of taking 2 special weapons in an immolator for tiny concentrated death, but that's the only new trick.)
Dominions, Seraphim, and Exorcists are... Pretty much the same, really. Bread and butter for Sisters of Battle. If you aren't spamming these units, you aren't doing it right.
Penitent Engines got worse.
Retributors got worse, since you can no longer use them as reliable rending squads. Now you only get their rending ability once, making them pretty mediocre.
I skipped some units in there, probably. Overall, the codex improved the really bad units a bit, but hurt our good units by equal measure. It's nice to have a few new tricks, but overall I'm not impressed and it is still a bottom-tier codex at best. Since we still have absolutely no way of dealing with aircraft, and only marginally better psychic resistance, it's still not going to be winning any tournaments.
On the other hand, this will certainly be useful as an ally. Seraphim can still rend hordes like nobody's business, and are a little cheaper now, Dominions can still scout ahead with meltaguns, Exorcists can still pump out simply amusing levels of S8 AP1. Sisters themselves aren't terrible, and can at least supply a reasonable number of special weapons at discount cost. Ally them to anyone actually capable of shooting down planes, and you've got yourself a decent fighting force.
I disagree with you about the Exorcists. The nano-second I see that sucker on the battlefield its catching heavy rail rifle death. Unlike the Landraider it can be pierced by the broadsides, and glanced to death by deathrains (which I ALWAYS run a squad of... soon to be two) and it's the most dangerous unit by far. Anything else can be brought down with plasma/ion fire.
Quote from: KCKitsune on December 18, 2013, 11:56:13 PM
I disagree with you about the Exorcists. The nano-second I see that sucker on the battlefield its catching heavy rail rifle death. Unlike the Landraider it can be pierced by the broadsides, and glanced to death by deathrains (which I ALWAYS run a squad of... soon to be two) and it's the most dangerous unit by far. Anything else can be brought down with plasma/ion fire.
Unfortunately, Sisters of Battle have no other way to get any decent quantities of low AP or high strength. Retributors only get rending for a turn, and are fragile. Melta Seraphim require you to be within 3" to use the Melta guns, Dominions are close, but don't get very many shots. Are exorcists fragile? Definitely. Is there anything else in the codex that can do their job? Nope. Against monstrous creatures, light-vehicle spam, even squads like terminators and Centurions, they're really the only choice.
After playing with the Sisters (now in the BatRep section :) ), I can say that the ladies are good, but not great.
They have decent power units with the Sister blob with IC's which is just amazing in assault and is far sturdier than you think.
Mass melta from the Immolators and Dominions is also very good, and the whole army benefits from Inquisitor synergy.
But...
They have poor long-range support (Exorcists are unreliable) and no anti-flyer support.
It's those two things that really hold them down.
I feel that if they can get a good ally (maybe IG?) to help them against current builds that would be great, but I feel that they're a good middle of the road Codex.
Best,
-BT
Looking at it, 5 Priests and a Cannoness/Command Squad can make a surprisingly powerful close combat deathstar. On the charge you can have 3+6++ rerollable saves, Feel No Pain, 16 S8 AP2 hits at initiative 3, a buttload of S3 attacks, and did I mention the S8AP2 initiative 3? There won't be a chance to challenge out these attacks, either, because they come from so many different targets.
It comes to about 500 points, but I want to see the look on my opponents faces when they get roflstomped by Sisters og Battle in close combat.
(In case you're wondering how I got 16 attacks at S8 AP2 - 4 Priests. 2 attacks base, halved for Smash, +1 for 2 CCW, +1 for the Command Squad's Banner, +1 for charging.)
The only real problem that such a squad would have is the relative number of wounds, as the command squad is so small...
Now the same group of priests in an IG blob or Sisters blob would be pretty nasty...
Also, sorry to ask, but did you have a chance to look at how the Sisters did in my rep?
They really did pretty well in assault, but I didn't have much to shoot at (most everything was a flyer or high AV tank.
Wanted to know if anyone else has any experience with the Sisters...
Best,
-BT
I did glance at the battle report, though I didn't examine it thorough or anything.
The reason I said command squad was to get the extra attacks from the banner, but 15 extra wounds is probably smart, even without Feel no Pain.
I'm playing a game where I'll be allying in some sisters on Saturday. Will let you know how it turns out.
Whelp. Seraphim kick ass. Unholy, unmitigated ass.
I played a game with Sisters of Battle. It was 2v2, (Sisters and Dark Angels versus Nids and Nids.)
My army was basically a 20-sister + Priest deathstar, (Including Uriah Jacobus,) and a squad of 5 Seraphim with Celestine.
The 20 Sisters didn't do a ton of stuff. The priests managed to use their Smash attacks along with Power Mauls in order to ID a Doom of Malan'tai. The Sisters themselves soaked up a little fire, and shot at Devilgaunts.
The Seraphim with Celestine, however, killed about 60 Gants, finished off a Tervigon and a Hive Tyrant, and soaked up inhuman amounts of firepower. I can easily say that they won my team the game, they made at least triple their points back.
I think the sisters are better, but not as good as the original codex.
How are Exorcist fragile, unless getting hit by barrage weapons I tend to keep mind a live a good bit. I tend to put them in a corner to limit side shots and their range can keep them out of a lot of fire fights.
I think point to point sisters is the best unit in the game, and the Exorcist is one of the best tanks in the game. However gear wise and options lower their rankings quite a bit.
Great allies though.
QuoteI think point to point sisters is the best unit in the game
+2 points gets you a Tac Marine, with +1 WS, S, T, I, and
They Shall Know No Fear. The only thing you lose is a 6+ Invuln which really doesn't save anyone.
Quote from: Chicop76 on January 03, 2014, 05:34:55 AM
I think the sisters are better, but not as good as the original codex.
How are Exorcist fragile, unless getting hit by barrage weapons I tend to keep mind a live a good bit. I tend to put them in a corner to limit side shots and their range can keep them out of a lot of fire fights.
They have the same range as a lascannon, and their armor is one point weaker than a landraider. Autocannon strength weapons (imperial plasma, missile pods, etc) can glance them to death. Heavy rail rifles can punch through their armor.
I run a farsight enclaive roster and use Subcommander Torchstar with my broadsides (it's SOOOO nice to ignore cover! :) ). It makes life a little messy for that Exorcist.
Railsides probably aren't the most cost-effective way of dealing with the Exorcist, especially since you're hoping on that 6 for the Pen.
Sisters are roughly 3 points cheaper than a marine. Grant it i am used to marines being 2 points more I will have to redo a squad analysis vs the new marines. Keep in mind 100 points get you 9 sisters compared to 6 marines. 18 bolter shots rapid fire vs 12. I'll do the math hammer again when I am really bored one day.
You kidding. I have run Exorcist a lot and they have served me well. They drop the cost which means you are easily fielding 2 to a landraider. It is a dirt cheap tank that can put out d6 strength 8 Ap 1 shots at 48". The front armour is 13 meaning its have decent protection in the front. The reason why it's good is you can run 3 for a decent amount of points and put out 3-18 strength 8 shots which no other unit can do so at that cost and at that range. If you lose one it's not a big deal since it didn't take up a huge chunk of your army like a landraider did.
I run Tau too. Unless you are running railsides good luck shooting at the Exorcist with Broadsides, because I am not stupid and will stay out of 36" from the sides, while I gleefully shoot at them 48" away. With tau I am more worried about deep striking melta suits or a hammerhead. It's one thing for a weapon to glance something to death and another to be able to actually do it. I typically keep my Exorcist in a corner and usually fielded away from the range fire. In return I rarely loose both my Exorcist. However getting a weapon destroyed is rather annoying, and does happen kinda a lot.
I actually sat down and read the new codex thoroughly. I would have to say I need to re-read the WD codex since I stillhave a lot of the original codex in my head.
Any kinda mad they cost more now than before while marines dropped in cost. That being said they can take two weapon options at squads of 5 which means they can field more special weapons at a cheap cost.
I have to double check, but it seems that all the sisters can take plasma rifles. I am not sure if that is something they could had done before. Also they can take them at a cheaper cost. Dominions can ignore cover saves which with plasma is rather nice. Also regular troops can 're roll ones which is nifty with plasma weapons.
The more I look at the codex it seems like a good build with the troops would be squads of 5 with maybe a priest or Cannoness with them. Which makes the Immolaters a more attractive option to run with the army. Cheap plasma and heavy flamers options make those two weapons very attractive in the army.
I was also looking at the command squad which can run 4-5 plasma rifles which would be rather neat.
Another thing I noticed was the Seraphim happens to be almost the same cost of a marine. Throw in Celestine you have 5 flAme template weapons you can throw at your opponent. Not to mention the hand flamers are 1/3 cheaper.
On average you can get two faith or possibly three faith tries in a game. However to go beyond one you have to pay for it. I would say for the troops it might not be a bad ideal. However it becomes debate able if you should do it at all. In smaller games I would say it isn't an issue, but in larger games I wouldn't due to you start losing units due to taking upgrades.
Another problem I see is if you are running a bunch of 5 man units your army list would be hard press to meet huge point costing games. For example 5 sisters with heavy flamers and flamers in an Immolaters with multimelta would be 135 points which is relatively cheap.
QuoteSisters are roughly 3 points cheaper than a marine. Grant it i am used to marines being 2 points more
Tac Marine: 14pts. Sister: 12pts. This means that 100pts will get you 8 Sisters vs 6 Marines.
Simply measuring how many shots they get at Rapid Fire doesn't really cut it, as the Marines are more durable, so more will survive fire to make it to Rapid Fire range. Also, the Marines can get Drop Pods to drop them right into where they're needed Turn 1.
On the other hand, though, Sisters have far better access to Special Weapons than Marines do.
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on January 06, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
QuoteSisters are roughly 3 points cheaper than a marine. Grant it i am used to marines being 2 points more
Tac Marine: 14pts. Sister: 12pts. This means that 100pts will get you 8 Sisters vs 6 Marines.
Simply measuring how many shots they get at Rapid Fire doesn't really cut it, as the Marines are more durable, so more will survive fire to make it to Rapid Fire range. Also, the Marines can get Drop Pods to drop them right into where they're needed Turn 1.
On the other hand, though, Sisters have far better access to Special Weapons than Marines do.
Guess you didn't read my second post after that one. Again I said they used to be cheaper and was raised in points while marines got cheaper. I overlooked the price hike.
The sisters have access to heavy flamers and have cheaper plasma and can have two special weapons. Which means 10 sister in groups of 5 can have 4 special weapons compared to 10 marines as a whole or as 2 man squads which would have only 2. Thinking about it I failed to really look at the sergeant upgrade. Throw in the character upgrade you can have at least 5 plasma shots within 12" for around 100 points, keep in mind faith helps with get hot.
I really don't see why they price hike. Honestly chapter marines can do almost all the things that sisters can do with better army wide abilities.
Although the possible 're refillable regular and +5 invulnerable saves looks interesting. However since I am a daemonplayer I can say that iit's ok, but not something that will win you games.
I'd collect Sisters for the fluff and look if only they weren't metal. I don't think they've ever been a great, face stomping army to field, but one where you see a guy playing it, and know he really likes the fluff aspect.
I have very close games with the local Sisters player, and they're very fun. Lately he ran two Penitent Engines, an Inquisitorial Land Raider, Celestines, and two twenty-girl blobs of Sisters with Priests.
The Land Raider refused to die, and the only reason I didn't lose was because I snuck a Devilfish behind him as he pushed up. My Fire Warriors broke through his Sisters holding his midfield Objective, just about survived the deluge of Bolter shots from the ones who took my Objective, and saved me a draw.
I think it takes a very tactical person to make Sisters good, and as a result, you get a good game that pushes you to play tactically instead. I dislike playing other Power Armour armies because most people just blitzkrieg up the field straight at my guns. Sure, it's not fun for me to fire-and-retreat, but when you're running straight at my squishy Shas'la, what else can I do?
I play all the armies, but Orcs and Dark Eldar basically. Although I can say I do have models for all the armies though,
That being said Sisters initially was very good. Once you get the hang off using faith I rarely lost with them. Mainly due to the two Cannoness tag team combo who auto passed any faith requiring unit size or higher. A good example is you would give large squads rending and smaller squads invulnerable saves. You had to be aware of the powers and take advantage of your squad sizes. Also Inquisitors was rather nice as well.
The WD codex needed them to he'll and back.
The new codex in my opinion is no where as good as the original. The original list my tag team sister combo could kill Bloodthirster type models rather easily. The only thing was a challenge was the Nightbringer, anything else they owned. Basically always have 2 plus invulnerable saves with strength 7/8 attacks, with one chance to ignore instant death. Not going to mention rending death to everyone.
The new codex does address issues that the old codex have. It gives troops more options as well as other units. I still miss j etpacks on my Cannoness, guess I should remodel the model since obviously they don't use packs anymore. Competitively I see them as guard allies. The sisters basically give the guard better tools while being decently cost-effective. Well compared to marines anyway, Although marines is not that much more anymore.
The Exorcist is a great add on vehicle for the guard to have for example. I do agree that they are not on the same level as Tau. I can beat Tau with sister/ guard. I don't see how I can do so with just sisters.