Looking for advice on whether or not to troll my hobby store. As I've mentioned before, you get bonuses in the escalation league if you buy things from the store. For the next two weeks, the bonus is a free fortification. I'm seriously considering taking a fully decked out Imperial Bastion just to emphasize how broken and easily exploitable his rules are.
Should I? (Frankly, I'll probably win all my games anyways, the competition is feeble at best...)
Nah, don't encourage them. Keep owning all the cheese they throw at you and show them that the idea is stupid.
... actually, what if they are adding these bonuses just so people can stand a chance against you? If that were the case, taking advantage of the bonus might make them realise it's useless :P
The problem is, a couple people won't even play me in the league because they know they'll lose... I convinced one person to play me, but only under the conditions that he knows my list almost a week in advance, and that I wwouldn't take Long Fangs. Trouncing my opposition with normal play is getting boring for all parties. But if past precedence is any meter, giving my opponents more points or models won't do a wolfing thing to help them.
And then there are the genuinely good players who aren't part of the league because you pretty much have to show up every Saturday to stand a chance.
I wouldnt even bother with it if you know you will win. Just arrange to play against the better guys.
Try playing against two opponents at instead of one. Surely being outnumbered two to one would make a difference.
Quote from: Mabbz on December 10, 2013, 11:51:17 PM
Try playing against two opponents at instead of one. Surely being outnumbered two to one would make a difference.
Do they get a point advantage over me? 2 Full sized armies against 1? Or do you mean just two players operating on the same side with two half sized armies?
Two full sized armies versus your one. Otherwise you'd be giving them a disadvantage, not you.
Hmm. I'll try that. What point value do you recommend?
Probably 1000 for each player. Any bigger and the game might take too long, while smaller values aren't as fun IMO.
Planned and will ne executed on Saturday. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Wait...
Do you mean that the store owners will GIVE you the fortification (like you can take a new sealed box home) or that you can just take one as bonus points.
I highly suspect the latter, otherwise, I might plan a trip to your store... :)
Best,
-BT
You get it in your game without spending points. If it were free... I'd have like fifty bastions right now, and sell 'em all on Ebay.
Whelp. I won, easily. We did 2500 points per side (or 2500 vs 5000), I lost maybe 800 points of models and killed most of their army.
Blegh.
... What. :facepalm001:
Ok, new plan. They get 2500 points each, you get 37 points and a small pile of flour.
Seriously though, how is that even possible? Were they just utterly terrible or something?
They were pretty much horrible. Really, really horrible.
They took 2 Daemon Princess, a Great Unclean One, Lord of Change, 5 Rhinos (3 with Plague Marines inside, 2 with Thousand Suns,) some deep strikey-rending-claw guys, and 2 squads of obliterators. And... some other stuff? Trivial stuff. I think 20 Plague Bearers.
No Helldrakes.
I brought Njal Stormcaller, 3 Rune Priests, Long Fangs with missile launchers, Long Fangs with plasma cannons, a Firestorm Redoubt, an aegis line, 20 body shields, Wolf Guard in drop pods with combi-plasmas to suicide bomb, 2 squads of 10 Grey Hunters with meltaguns to function as distraction battalions.
They. Held. Everything. Back. And. Slowly. Walked. Forward.
Seriously.
Flipping. Seriously.
Only the jump pack dudes deep struck, and that was closer to his side of the board. Nobody ever got within bolter range of my main fortress. My 3 Drop Pod squads distracted him perfectly, giving me three full turns to blast the crap out of his army with pretty much no casualties to my main force. They surrendered on turn 4 with less points left on the board than me, and in no position to even scratch my main force. (It was coming on my turn again.)
It was glorious, awful, bloody slaughter.
I suppose if the people you're playing against have no tactical sense then you could still win with a rather large handicap (as long as you keep your tactical sense and the dice gods don't decide to hate you).
Quote from: Mabbz on December 15, 2013, 12:28:36 AM
... What. :facepalm001:
Ok, new plan. They get 2500 points each, you get 37 points and a small pile of flour.
Seriously though, how is that even possible? Were they just utterly terrible or something?
Given that I've managed to lose 250 points in a 4500 point game, whilst my opponent was massacred, it doesn't sound impossible if against the right players. I've also won a lot of 3000 vs 4000 games by a large margin. (i.e maintaining at least 2000 points whilst massacring the opponent).
At this point it's getting frustrating, though. It's not even a testament to my skill, just a displsy of their incompetence. At my LGS, my talent ois treated a bit like a gold standard, even though I don't think I'm that stellar of a player. So, anytine ddecent competition comes in from outside the seven or eight patrons of the store and beat me, I look incredibly dumb and they look lime 40k Jesus.
I suppose that's always a problem with gaming at a local level. You're limited by who's around you.
You could always point some other people in the direction of some tactics?
Quote from: Sorck on December 15, 2013, 08:44:11 PM
I suppose that's always a problem with gaming at a local level. You're limited by who's around you.
You could always point some other people in the direction of some tactics?
I've tried. I swear I've really, really tried. One, who for the sake of the example I'll call Daemon, (Guess why,) seems to learn, but he's also really new to the game. Another, though, who I'll call Tonny, hasn't listened to a word I've said.
After losing about 10 games in a row with Deathwing terminators, he doesn't decide to change his tactics. He complains that my army is broken and I'm too good. After 20 losses, he starts proxying other armies in instead.
Damn, waaghpower, what's the address of this store?! Sounds like a fun place to rack up the WL ratio! xD
My LGS is pretty tame, but thankfully I lose as much as I win. I think your only hope is literally to start teaching people tactics, in my experience a lot of people will listen and try and learn from it.
However, I know from trying to help people kill Tau that it can be hard to disassemble and tell an opponent how to pick apart your army, and not automatically move to counter those weaknesses as you always would. For me, people have gone pretty shooty, which is the best way to deal with Tau until you get into fisticuffs range. Still, I don't play to lose, so I end up adapting and countering as much as possible, for some armies, especially slow-moving Chaos lists, this can be tough to beat.
Games Workshop: Blue Ridge Crossing. Ask to play Tony.
Hehe, that address points me to Kansas. As I currently live in England, I'd ask you not to hold your breath on a game! :P
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on December 16, 2013, 08:01:51 PM
Hehe, that address points me to Kansas. As I currently live in England, I'd ask you not to hold your breath on a game! :P
Awww. :( I was hoping a decent player would come along.
(Technically, there are one or two good players who come regularly, but one plays Tyranids and doesn't have a lot of models, (Meaning it's dreadfully easy to plan for,) and the other hardly ever shows up.)
If it was me I would table the comp in the league and use that as a platform to demonstrate how weakpay to win is. For me someone saying I could have won if I wanted to leads me to think "whatever" unless I know the person. (Me and a couple of vets throw lots of games if we think the guys a noob), however winning I think lends weight to your arguement.
Fun related story: The same guy who I beat in the 2500 versus 5000 game (Well, one of them) wanted to play a 3500 vs 4500 game. I agreed, saying I'd play Space Wolves. He asked if it was okay to Proxy a lot. I said sure. He double checked that a third force organization chart was okay, since it's such a big game. I said sure, since it's just a casual fun game. He told me he is bringing 9 Helldrakes.
EDIT: After thinking about it, I'll just politely decline the game.
When playing chess against a friendly and superior opponent with the intent of BOTH improving their skills one needs to look at the current situation.
First we will assume that the superior player is simply not attempting an early game strategy and facing a late game one that would fail every time (a strategic loss, not a tactical one). For our comparison we are assuming in warhammer that neither side has such a flaw.
The superior player will no doubt have a victory inflection point, where the game goes from even to a clear advantage. Taking the inferior queen and one other power piece for example. This will happen several times over several games. The inferior may choose to halt play at this point to restart the game, or perhaps cease further replays after enough iterations as the same outcome happens with multiple strategies.
This paradigm results in a series of games that stop being educationally relevant past the victory inflection point. The inferior can no longer effectively play the game as the superior player presses the advantage held until the win. At the same time the inferior player is not challenged, having bested the opponent under even conditions, one assumes that with continued play with advantageous conditions the decision making is obvious and uninteresting.
What is essentially needed for improvement of both players is that the inferior player needs practise in a situation where they are limited in pieces, but have have an overall advantage, a late game situation that they never reach and never get to play. The superior player would need a situation where there is a definite advantage for the opponent due to a flawed early game and now they must catch up.
The solution is simple if the inflection point can be identified. At that point, the players switch teams. The superior now plays catchup and how to work with limited resources, the inferior is in a novel superior environment and gets a chance to learn a late game that they never reach.
This application could potentially be even better in 40K as random chance will cause the superior player unintended early game sacrifice that they must be adept at recovering from, just as it may give the inferior player a novel late game that they should learn how to press.
The 'hard part' is finding where that point lies to get the most out of it...but yea.