Greetings,
What would a Space Marine (Ultramarines) player use to take down one of these Imperial Knights without using another Imperial Knight or a Super Heavy?
Any comments are welcomed and appreciated, Thanks in Advance
Same thing you'd do to kill a Land Raider. Melta and Lascannons.
Flanking tactics and stand off weapons. Broadside teams, Devestators, Predator Anihilators, Havocs and similar.
Lots of Combi-Meltas in Drop Pods. Easy Peasy.
All of the above would work, and mayhaps a Flier or 2. Storm Talons/Ravens could crack it with their respective missiles, and the Talon might Rend. If you're not against allies you could be brave (insane?) enough to throw something with haywire grenades into combat with it, as the Ion Shield save is only against shooting. They might not all die horribly.
The Ion shield is also only good for one facing which must be declared at the start of the shoot phase.
If you can get a shots on multiple facings, then the shield will not work on one of them...
I would suggest Land Speeders with Multi Melta. They allow you manouverability along with heavy fire power!
Which rulebook is the Imperial Knights in? I would like to know their rules **BEFORE** I face on the battlefield.
Quote from: KCKitsune on February 27, 2014, 09:56:57 PM
Which rulebook is the Imperial Knights in? I would like to know their rules **BEFORE** I face on the battlefield.
Rules can be found here (https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2850/12594577113_37293ac4e2_o.jpg) and here (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/12594576503_7c5035a793_o.jpg) ;)
Most of their AVs are 12, heck a dakka flyrant would severely wittle this thing down. Missile sides, wave serpents, Chaos melta-suicide-nators, drop-podded meltas, storm troopers - they don't seem that scary to me. I don't know, I'm facing them this weekend so I might be proven wrong.
They're only 12 on the side, but 13 up front, so you'd need Side/Rear Armour to even Glance it. 12 shots T-L nets you 2 Glances, one if it has the Ion Shield up. Not the best thing to rely on.
2 Glances per turn will kill it after three turns. With clever positioning, his Ion Shield wouldn't be able to defend from multiple sides.
You want to kill it quicker than three turns, it'll be in combat on the second. D-ing your Fexes. That's if it doesn't Ground your Flyrant with the Stubber and charge it.
It also has It Will Not Die, IIRC. You want to kill it quickly and harshly, not through attrition. A brood of Claw Fexes might be the best bet. You're going last anyway, might as well hit back hard with S10 Armourbane. In CQC it has no Shield, so do what Nids do best ,and stab it.
It doesn't have It Will Not Die (thank the Emperor). I also read up on Invincible Behemoth, which states that if it suffers a Explodes! hit it just loses d3 hull points. So now I'm thinking a squadron of fusion gun carrying Piranhas is a good idea, seeing that they can reliably pen AV13.
My personal answer is already built into my current TAC list. Homing Beacons scattered around the board give me options for precision Deep Strikes over a lot of the board. A true Kau'yon defense.
Broadsides at the front, Fusion at the rear, it'll get hurt no matter what it does.
Also remember that the Titan has a 15" template when it explodes, the middle 5" of which is strength D (i.e. kills everything without a save).
Thankfully it scatters, but if you're unlucky, that bad boy is going to be wiping out whatever was shooting at it.
Oh, and that also gives you extra incentive to NOT keep it in the center of your army.
I'm getting a game in with one proxied soon, so I'll make a rep as soon as that's done :)
My predictions?
I think it'll do some damage, but not as much as everyone says.
This isn't a Revenant after all.
It might actually be better in assault rather than just raw shooting, as it's actually sort of mediocre (2 battle cannon shots or 1 melta shot that doesn't ignore cover is actually kind of weaksauce in the current meta).
4 "D" hits on the assault, especially if given prescience means that it can do a lot of damage to the enemy and also can act as a kind of anti-deathstar suicide weapon, as you just throw it in, knowing it'll take out a chunk of the jetseer/screamerstar, either by using the big chainsword or the resulting D explosion...
And since most deathstars cost about 2 or so Knights that might actually be a viable tactic...
As for taking them out, anything that can mass S7/8 shots will do nicely. Fliers too.
Best,
-BT
Quote from: CoffeeGrunt on February 28, 2014, 09:09:05 AM
They're only 12 on the side, but 13 up front, so you'd need Side/Rear Armour to even Glance it. 12 shots T-L nets you 2 Glances, one if it has the Ion Shield up. Not the best thing to rely on.
Rely on? No, certainly not, a nid player would be charging that thing, croning that thing, zoanthroping that thing to kingdom come. Will those options be something it can ignore? Not in your life.
I stand by what I said about not being too scared of them. I'll see how Chaos is going to treat them, if I can down a pair of russes in a turn I can down this thing.
Scatter actually makes the Blast more effective, considering its base size, it's more likely to hit something with that D blast.
I really hope someone at my club takes one of those. My IG TAC list has enough ordnance to take that down in a single turn with only a small amount of luck.
I have one question: the ion shield only affects one out of the four facings. The way I read the rule, it's therefore unusable against barrage hits, since they hit the top armour, so my manticore could probably take it out in 2-3 turns on it's own. Anyone disagree?
There is no "Top" facing, what AV do you normally use if it hits the top?
You use the AV of the side armor... But the book doesn't clarify which side you hit. It's ambigous.
According to Pg 73 of the BRB:
Quote from: The RulebookBlast Weapons vs Vehicles
When firing a Blast or Large Blast weapon at a vehicle, place the marker with the hole over any part of the vehicle's hull and then roll for scatter as normal. IN the case of multiple blasts, the vehicle will be hit once each time any part of a blast marker ends up over the vehicle or its base. The armour penetration roll is resolved against the Armour Value facing the firer, regardless of the position of the marker, using the full Strength of the Weapon.
So you're only going to hit the side armour if you're on its side :-\
"Barrage" gives no rule about hitting a vehicle on the "Top" only that it means the weapon can fire without Line of Sight.
I don't think they seem that hard to shoot down at all really. 6HP AV13 4+ Invun?
That's not much different to playing against a pair of Necron Command Barges with tooled up Lords boosting at you turn 1. Its very rare that I don't kill them in that turn. Plus you really should get much longer to shoot at these guys and its not like they are very scary when returning fire at range.
I actually don't think they are very competitive, I do though think they are the coolest model they have ever done.
Quote from: Narric on February 28, 2014, 10:20:59 PM
According to Pg 73 of the BRB:
Quote from: The RulebookBlast Weapons vs Vehicles
When firing a Blast or Large Blast weapon at a vehicle, place the marker with the hole over any part of the vehicle's hull and then roll for scatter as normal. IN the case of multiple blasts, the vehicle will be hit once each time any part of a blast marker ends up over the vehicle or its base. The armour penetration roll is resolved against the Armour Value facing the firer, regardless of the position of the marker, using the full Strength of the Weapon.
So you're only going to hit the side armour if you're on its side :-\
"Barrage" gives no rule about hitting a vehicle on the "Top" only that it means the weapon can fire without Line of Sight.
Quote from: The Rulebook, page 34 paragraph 4Barrage
To determine whether a unit wounded by a Barrage weapon is allowed a cover save, and when determining wound allocation, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the blast marker, instead of from the firing model. Hits against vehicles are always resolved against the side armour
I was a bit mixed up with the 5th edition rulebook that more specifically mention the top armour. Based on this, which side is hit should probably be determined by the position of the blast marker's hole (even if the hole is on the vehicle, the facing can still be determined) for the purposes of the shield, while still using the side armour value for damage. I think ???.
Aah, missed that. I was looking for a full paragraph on how Barrage weapons damage vehicles.
It probably means that if it lands on top of the tank you use the closest facing to the hole (with most tanks being longer than wide, you're more likely to hit the side), while if just the edge of the marker is over the vehicle you use the front facing.
Just got a game in!
Not going to spill the beans, as I have a rep going in the batrep board:
Knights: OP or WTF? http://secondsphere.org/index.php?topic=1742.0 (http://secondsphere.org/index.php?topic=1742.0)
If you wanna see it just click!
And, if you want BigToof points, feel free to vote and post!
Best,
-BT
Okay, don't run just one. They will die by turn 3. Even to Tyranids. Even to Orks. Everything killed the knights that were there. Target saturation is not the best by themselves.