Second Sphere

So, I did an outline a while back found here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?336199-Codex-Gue-nam-Wing) for a fandex on a Gundam Wing version of a 40K army.  C&C Welcome!

Spoiler

Introduction:
There's a little project I have been working on in my head for a while. I've started putting some of it down. This project was to bring the basic units of the anime series Gundam Wing into 40K in a more practical manner. The Gundam series' Mobile Suits are probably closer to Knights, and so less practical for the level of 40K. There were 2 options at that point. Shrink them one level and make them Walkers, or shrink them even further and put them in to the level of Tau Battlesuits. Since people keep making claims that Tau are the "anime" race, this is the route that this codex will take.

Story:
The basic story I am starting with is that an early Tau colonization effort was redirected to a lonely cluster of humanity which they conquered and managed to take over, but never prospered sufficiently to do more than just be the leaders. After a few human generations, the last Ethereal dies, plunging the remaining Tau into a self-destructive cycle which some enterprising Humans take advantage of, revolting and finishing the Tau's control of the cluster. As part of this process, the humans take advantage of some of the Tau technology with their limited understanding and combining it with Imperium weaponry. They name some of their weapon systems after old memories of the Primarchs of old. They have secured their local cluster, and now the leadership begin to look hungrily outward...

I think I have a basic start for the initial Troop units, so I bring them here for C&C:

Lion Suit Squad ... 75 points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Lion Suit 3 3 4 4 2 3 2 7 3+ Infantry 3 Lion Suits Iron Soul Lion Suit 2 2 4 4 2 4 2 7 3+ Infantry Lion Suit Lt 4 4 4 4 2 3 3 8 3+ Infantry (Character) Wargear: XV-7 Lion Battlesuit Burst Pistol Burst Rifle Frag Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Bulky Options: May add up to 2 more Lion Suits.....................25 pts/model Any Lion Suit may exchange their Burst Rifle for a Close Combat Weapon or Burst Carbine..........................free One Lion Suit may take a Battlesuit Special Weapon. The fifth Lion Suit may take a Battlesuit Heavy Weapon. Upgrade one Lion Suit to Lion Suit Lt........10points The Lion Suit Lt may take Battlesuit Melee Weapons. If a Lion Suit Lt is purchased, all remaining Lion Suits may be upgraded with an Iron Soul to be become Iron Soul Lion Suits.......10pts/model The unit may take a Centurata as a Dedicated Transport. Fire Team ...40 points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Fire Soldier 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 4+ Infantry 4 Fire Soldiers Fire Corporal 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 4+ Infantry (Character) 1 Fire Corporal Fire Sarge 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 7 4+ Infantry (Character) Fire Lt 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 4+ Infantry (Character) You may include up to five Fire Teams in a single Troops slot. Wargear: Carapace Armour Light Pistol Light Rifle Frag Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Combined Squad Combat Orders (Fire Lt) Options: Any Fire Team Member may exchange their Light Rifle with a Close Combat Weapon or Light Carbine............................free One Fire Soldier per Squad may take a Ranged Weapon. Any other Fire Soldier may purchase one of the following: Claw Missile..........8pts Talon Missile.........8pts If two or four Fire Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade up to two Fire Corporals to a Fire Sarge................5 pts/model If five Fire Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade one Fire Corporal to a Fire Lt.......10 pts/model Any Fire Corporal or Sarge may purchase Meltabombs........5pts Any Fire Sarge or Lt may take Melee Weapons. Each squad may take a Chimera or Hornet as a Dedicated Transport. Ranged Weapons: Burst Rifle Range S AP Type 24" 5 5 Salvo 2/3 Burst Carbine Range S AP Type 18" 5 5 Assault 3 Burst Pistol Range S AP Type 12" 5 5 Pistol Heavy Plasma Gun Range S AP Type 24" 7 2 Salvo 2/3, Gets Hot! Heavy Plasma Pistol Range S AP Type 12" 7 2 Pistol, Gets Hot! Light Rifle Range S AP Type 30" 3 6 Rapid Fire Light Carbine Range S AP Type 18" 3 5 Assault 2 Light Pistol Range S AP Type 12" 3 6 Pistol Plasma Rifle Range S AP Type 24" 6 2 Rapid Fire Light Plasma Pistol Range S AP Type 12" 6 2 Pistol Claw Missile Range S AP Type 24" 7 3 Heavy 1, One Shot Talon Missile Range S AP Type 36" 6 3 Heavy 1, One Shot, Skyfire Melee Weapons: Beam Sword Range S AP Type - User 3 Melee, Rending Wargear: Iron Soul A model equipped with the Iron Soul Gains The Slow and Purposeful, Fearless, and Counter-Fire rules.  In addition, the model's WS and BS is decreased by 1 and I is increased by 1.  In addition, all Ranged Weapons gain Twin-Linked.  If the weapon is Heavy, it gains Gets Hot!.  If the weapon already has Gets Hot!, the affect occurs on a 1 or a 2. Army Rules: Combined Squad: When it deploys, Teams with this rule may combine with other Teams purchased as part of the same slot.  If you decide to form any Teams into a larger unit, they they are treated as a single unit from that point on.  They may not separate again during the game. Combat Orders: A model with this rule may choose not to shoot, but make a Leadership-test, if successful give one of the following abilities of the unit he is with, if the ability requires a Leadership Test, it is to be considered passed: Stealth Counter-Attack Split-Fire Crusader

Edit 1: Adjustments to remove some old forgotten artifacts.
Edit 2: Some adjustments to Combat Orders and the Fire Team.
Edit 3: Some more adjustments to the Fire Team and replacing Combat Squad with Combined Squad.[/list]

I'm just looking for things that could be broken.


Lightning Claw; 5 pts cheaper.
Beam Sword; A Rending Power Sword... which is also 5pts cheaper than a normal Power Sword.
Power Fist; 10 pts cheaper.
Heavy Plasma Pistol; exactly the same as a normal Plasma Pistol
Why can't I exchange my Burst Pistol for a Close Combat Weapon?


The Heavy Weapons seem a bit pointless; their armament means they are a moving unit; the fact they can't take Transports or move quickly means they are definitely a moving unit, and yet they can't move and shoot heavy weapons? Why add them to the unit at all then?

Why is the Lascannon so expensive? This is a close combat- mid range unit, so Lascannons' range won't be used, and up close, the Multi-Melta is better... Points decrease, perhaps, otherwise you'll never take one... meaning it's not balanced.
Heavy Bolter is 5 points more... for a single AP better, and in inability to move and shoot without Snap-Firing?

So, for 135pts, I can have a 5 man unit of Lion Suits which can put out 12 Twin-Linked/Shredding Str 5 shots with 10 wounds, 3+ saves at 24"?

For 135pts (2x Burst Cannons and Advanced Targeting System) I can have a unit of Tau Crisis Battlesuits, who can Jump-Shoot-Jump, with 24 shots at Str 5, all of which Precision Shot on a 6, have the same save and Armour Save, better leadership and move faster as well as Deep Strike.

The only role I can see for them is camping an objective, which for 75pts, they're VERY good. But a front line unit, they most certainly are not.

Maybe they're an assault squad?

5x Lion Suits, with Burst Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, Lion Suit Sgt. with Beam Sword.
145pts.

That gives me 16 attacks on the charge, at WS3, Str 4, and 5 Rending Power Sword attacks at Str 5, on a unit with  10 wounds and walking speed and no transport, and Marine Toughness, so they will be killed by hidden Power Fists and such.

Comparatively, I can take 10 Assault Marines for 155pts from the Dark Angels book. They move faster, have 31 attacks on the charge at the same strength, plus 10 Hammer of Wrath attacks, and the same amount of wounds, as well as higher Leadership to stay in the fight.

So, the only use they have is you buy a unit for 75pts and they stay on an objective in the back.

Haven't looked at the infantry yet.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AM
I'm just looking for things that could be broken.

Thank you.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMLightning Claw; 5 pts cheaper.
Beam Sword; A Rending Power Sword... which is also 5pts cheaper than a normal Power Sword.
Power Fist; 10 pts cheaper.

Ah, yes, Artifacts left over from an earlier design.  The Lion Suit Lt was originally supposed to come with a Power Weapon.  When I changed that part, I apparently forgot to adjust the Lt's weapon prices.  Adjusted.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMHeavy Plasma Pistol; exactly the same as a normal Plasma Pistol

Normal for the Imperium for stats.  Fluff-wise, it's reinforced to be used in close combat by the Lion Suits which are larger than even the Astartes.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMWhy can't I exchange my Burst Pistol for a Close Combat Weapon?

Why would you want to?  Pistols already are a CCW.  Admittedly, if I keep the Suit's ability to Assault after firing Salvo weapons, it becomes an almost useless weapon as opposed to the pistols used by most Rapid Fire Troops.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMThe Heavy Weapons seem a bit pointless; their armament means they are a moving unit; the fact they can't take Transports or move quickly means they are definitely a moving unit, and yet they can't move and shoot heavy weapons? Why add them to the unit at all then?

1) I haven't included Dedicated Transports because I haven't designed them completely, yet, so I haven't included them in the list.
2) Why is there a Heavy Weapon in a Tactical Squad?  Same reason, really.
3) I'm adjusting the Burst Rifle and Heavy Plasma Guns Salvo ratios as well.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMWhy is the Lascannon so expensive? This is a close combat- mid range unit, so Lascannons' range won't be used, and up close, the Multi-Melta is better... Points decrease, perhaps, otherwise you'll never take one... meaning it's not balanced.
Heavy Bolter is 5 points more... for a single AP better, and in inability to move and shoot without Snap-Firing?

Some more old artifacts.  I forgot to restructure the pricing to reflect DA's numbers.  (HB is 10 pts in both CSM and DA, though).

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 02, 2013, 09:22:41 AMSo, for 135pts, I can have a 5 man unit of Lion Suits which can put out 12 Twin-Linked/Shredding Str 5 shots with 10 wounds, 3+ saves at 24"?

Wait, where do they get TL/Shredding?  The Lion Suits don't have access to Combat Orders, that's just the Fire Team.

:P Right, well, my biggest gripe is that they are designed to be a shooty unit which can't really be made into a decent shooting unit (not enough shots, they're not high enough AP, and they're not high enough str, so not sure what role they're meant to shot).

Or, they're a potential assault unit which cannot move quick enough, and doesn't put out enough attacks or a high enough str to make them worth taking.

So, like I said, the depressing fact is that they're a camping unit at best- unless you designed them for the role, in which case... okay.

---

I really like the Fire Team squad.

I've had a look; Flamers being free make them an amazing option, so I'd increase it to maybe 3pts or something. Alternatively, the Grenade Launcher is so-so, especially when every model can take Claw/Talon launchers, so I'd possibly reduce that to 3pts as well.

I think the Light Rifle is a tad underwhelming, maybe add an extra pip of AP or Str; likewise with the carbine. Not going to break the game, just going to make the unit nicer. Or reduce it to 35pts per squad.

The options to add more people in blocks of 5 was a little confusingly worded, but I picked it up.

For one shot weapons, they're a really good idea, they add some good versatility to the unit without having the age-old problem of "infantry guns, anti-tank missile, waste the big shot or waste the little shots".

My thoughts are, instead of Twin-Linked or Shred, perhaps offer "Split Fire" as the Lt. organises the squad under the Sergeants, and "Stealth" as the Lt organises the squad into a sneaking pattern, or "Counter-attack" as the Lt prepares for an incoming assault. Pick one per turn. I've never liked the whole "I'm talking to you, now you shoot better" thing. A commander commands, not offers a shooting lesson in the middle of a fight.

But the Fire Team is a really, really good unit which would nearly always be used over the Lion Suits already.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AM
:P Right, well, my biggest gripe is that they are designed to be a shooty unit which can't really be made into a decent shooting unit (not enough shots, they're not high enough AP, and they're not high enough str, so not sure what role they're meant to shot).

Or, they're a potential assault unit which cannot move quick enough, and doesn't put out enough attacks or a high enough str to make them worth taking.

So, like I said, the depressing fact is that they're a camping unit at best- unless you designed them for the role, in which case... okay.

Aside from volume of shots (which is mostly attributed to the lack of volume from the Special/Heavy Weapons, I assume?), what would make them offensively shooty while still retaining a mix of Imperium and Tau?  Should they also have Combat Orders as well?

I also know it can be hard to balance units without seeing the entire army list, but thanks for the help.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AM
I really like the Fire Team squad.

I've had a look; Flamers being free make them an amazing option, so I'd increase it to maybe 3pts or something. Alternatively, the Grenade Launcher is so-so, especially when every model can take Claw/Talon launchers, so I'd possibly reduce that to 3pts as well.

The pricing was based on what the Imperial Guard codex had.  I can recheck to make sure it's up to par.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AMI think the Light Rifle is a tad underwhelming, maybe add an extra pip of AP or Str; likewise with the carbine. Not going to break the game, just going to make the unit nicer. Or reduce it to 35pts per squad.

It was based on the old Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Helgun, with additional range.  I figured I'd balance the range buff with a AP nerf on the Rifle.  I  had the Carbine at Str: 4, AP 6, at one point, but thought that would be a little much so allowed for the range to improve it's AP.  AP: 4 would be a little TOO good for a standard Troop weapon, especially when it can be deployed in such numbers.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AMThe options to add more people in blocks of 5 was a little confusingly worded, but I picked it up.

Apologies.  I originally wrote this up as a 5th Edition book, which was actually easier for this set up (see IG).  I don't know a better way to type it up, at the moment.  The purpose was to try and recreate something similar to a small modern platoon with 5 man squads that could either operate as a whole or as multiple squads as needed.  Any suggestions to make it clearer?  Should I list it as adding a Squad first with what makes the squad in parentheses?

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AMFor one shot weapons, they're a really good idea, they add some good versatility to the unit without having the age-old problem of "infantry guns, anti-tank missile, waste the big shot or waste the little shots".

Again, looking at how a modern military would do it.  Focusing more on the ability to keep movement as part of their paradigm, but still needed to apply an AT punch as needed.  The LAW and Stinger came to mind from there, and wallah.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AMMy thoughts are, instead of Twin-Linked or Shred, perhaps offer "Split Fire" as the Lt. organises the squad under the Sergeants, and "Stealth" as the Lt organises the squad into a sneaking pattern, or "Counter-attack" as the Lt prepares for an incoming assault. Pick one per turn. I've never liked the whole "I'm talking to you, now you shoot better" thing. A commander commands, not offers a shooting lesson in the middle of a fight.

Good ideas.  I'll plug them.

Should the Fire Team have the option to purchase Carapace Armour?  I had that in mind, but I guess I forgot to add it to the original document so it wasn't upgraded.

I'ma take a crack at this unit :P

First impression is there shouldn't be a seperate Statline for "Iron Soul" suits. It clutters up the entry in my personal opinion. The "Iron Soul" needs more explianing. Is the suit so well use and old, that a psychic imprint has been left in the machine, allowed it to be animate without a pilot? Sounds cool, but I highly doubt an imperial colony would readily use such tech, as it might be considered a heretical act once they return to the imperium (if that is their goal).
Looking further at "Iron Soul" it makes no sense that it would lower WS & BS and its I would increase. An explianation behind Iron soul would help here.
The additional effect to the weapons carried seem a bit wish-y-wash-y. IT actually doesn't sound like an appealing upgrade at all. Unless you're tooling for Combat, where that bonus to your I is useful.

Stabilized Platform = Relentless. Saves you some writing ;)

Combat Squad sounds too Marine-y. Assuming these units are formed from IG ranks, they're be more inclined to Combine Squads, then seperate. Massed Focused Firepower is a terrifying sight to see on the battlefield, no matter which side you're on.

Combat Orders feel like an interesting idea, not given full thought. What is the point of gaining Split-fire if you can't shoot? Remove Split-fire, and make it an ability similar to IG Stormtroopers "Special Operations" ability. It allows the player to use the unit more tactically against multiple opponents, over multiple games.

- The Lion Suit stats feel off, as I'd assume IG Vets to be the Pilots. BS4 should be minimum (excluding Iron Soul).
- I'd personally prefer these to start with a Rifle and CC weapon, with the option to go full CC by swapping the rifle to a Pistol. Full Ranged coule be swapping the CC weapon to a Heavy weapon.
- The fourth option mentioning a "Fifth" Lion Suit, would be better phrased as "When the squad is filled, a second Lion Suit may replace his Burst Rifle with one of the following:"
- Burst Carbines should be a unit upgrae, not a Character exlusive. Maybe include a small price to it then?
- You included upgrade options for the Character multiple times. You can condence it itnto a single option set like this: "The Lion Suit Lt may exchange his Burst Rifle and/or Burst Pistol for one of the following: Burst Carbine or CCW...free | Lightning Claw..........15pts | Beam Sword.............15pts | Power Fist...............25pts"
- Iron Soul needs more explaination before I can give my opinions on its cost.

- My first gripe about the fire team is the multiple Character types. This is bad in my opinion, as you need only one Character type per unit. Leave it at "Fire sergeant" and carry on ;)
- If you want to make up to four Fire Teams a single FOC choice, it is better to write just that under the unit name, like so: "You may include up to five Fire Teams in a single Troops slot." However, I'd highly recommend limiting how many Fire Team Slots can be taken, overwise they'll outnumber IG horrible, aspecially at their cost in pts.
- Please put a limit on that Missile upgrade. If this is a Troops choice, for just 720pts, you have 40 missile shots, which will undoubtably destroy the Flyer they're targeted at. Taking that to the extreme, thats 120 S6/S7 shots that'll hit on a 4+. Here is some rolls:
To hit: http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4203601/
To Penetrate (assuming AV11): http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4203602/
Thats 15 times these will either glance or penetrate most non-imperial flyers.
- The option for Special Weapons is semi-redundant with such fire-power available to the whole squad.
- the upgrade option for upping Corps to sarges doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why not say "Up to two/three Corporals, may be upgraded to Sarges"? this assuming you keep the varying Characters.
- Again with the Upgrade to Leiutenant, say "One Corporal may be upgraded to a Leiutenant"
- Why cannot Leiutenants carry Meltabombs?
- Why cannot the Corporal Carry a Special CC weapon?
- Why can only the Leiutenant carry a Plasma Pistol?

The weapons look alright, its mostly the units they're upgrades for that needs work in my opinion.
With the exception being the Beam Sword. this thing would probably be best being Str7, and AP2. Its essential a Light saber, or maybe a sword made of Plasma. I don't think Rending is really needed after that change.

Thats just my opinion on these.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
First impression is there shouldn't be a seperate Statline for "Iron Soul" suits. It clutters up the entry in my personal opinion. The "Iron Soul" needs more explianing. Is the suit so well use and old, that a psychic imprint has been left in the machine, allowed it to be animate without a pilot? Sounds cool, but I highly doubt an imperial colony would readily use such tech, as it might be considered a heretical act once they return to the imperium (if that is their goal).
Looking further at "Iron Soul" it makes no sense that it would lower WS & BS and its I would increase. An explianation behind Iron soul would help here.
The additional effect to the weapons carried seem a bit wish-y-wash-y. IT actually doesn't sound like an appealing upgrade at all. Unless you're tooling for Combat, where that bonus to your I is useful.

I didn't include the fluff for it, so it's easy to not know.  In Gundam Wing (which this is mostly inspired by), not only are there giant piloted robots, but they actually made some to be piloted by machine.  Most were retrofitted in to existing suits that were originally piloted by people.  In the Imperium and Tau Empire, they have similar devices in the Machine Spirits and Drones.  These people lost the ability to manufacture the Machine Spirits, but Gun Drones were available by the but load.  The lower BS and WS while having better I (and TL) are all features of the Gun Drone.  They have good reflexes (Initiative and Twin-Linked), but have have a hard time learning and retaining experience (low BS and WS).  The Gets Hot! feature is more due to them not recognizing the subtle tricks of the Heavy Weapons and may easily be used beyond their limits.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
Stabilized Platform = Relentless. Saves you some writing ;)

But Relentless is completely different.  If I wanted to have them move, shoot, and charge without limit, they would have been Relentless.  I have that planned for a much nastier and bigger (and limited) unit.  Of course, if I don't have a Rapid Fire weapon on a model that has this Rule I may remove it all together.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
Combat Squad sounds too Marine-y. Assuming these units are formed from IG ranks, they're be more inclined to Combine Squads, then seperate. Massed Focused Firepower is a terrifying sight to see on the battlefield, no matter which side you're on.

They follow a mixture of IG and Tau traditions, as well as half-remembered stories of Space Marines.  You may have a point about the setup, though.  5th Edition style was much easier to do this with, but we don't have an IG for 6th Edition for an adequate comparison, so this version is quite clunky.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
Combat Orders feel like an interesting idea, not given full thought. What is the point of gaining Split-fire if you can't shoot? Remove Split-fire, and make it an ability similar to IG Stormtroopers "Special Operations" ability. It allows the player to use the unit more tactically against multiple opponents, over multiple games.

Um, the entire unit gains Split Fire, not just the Lt.

As for Spec Ops suggestion, that may work better for the Elite Light Infantry unit that I have planned, but Troops units need to be more flexible.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- The Lion Suit stats feel off, as I'd assume IG Vets to be the Pilots. BS4 should be minimum (excluding Iron Soul).

I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't think this will change for two reasons:
1) Crisis Suit pilots are also Veterans, and yet still are limited to a lower BS than most Veterans.
2) The Lion Suits are the base unit of the battlesuit pilots and there are more elite corps available.

Just a couple more problems with having only 1 FOC to work with.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- I'd personally prefer these to start with a Rifle and CC weapon, with the option to go full CC by swapping the rifle to a Pistol. Full Ranged coule be swapping the CC weapon to a Heavy weapon.

So having a Rifle and Pistol and swapping the Rifle for a CCW (which all the Lions can) is not as good as having a Rifle and CCW and swapping the Rifle for a Pistol?

The reason the Pistol is there instead of a CCW is because the Lions cannot charge after firing Salvo weapons (currently), but can after firing the Pistols.  That's why the Marines from Dark Angels 4th on (including the Chaos Marines) have carried them.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- The fourth option mentioning a "Fifth" Lion Suit, would be better phrased as "When the squad is filled, a second Lion Suit may replace his Burst Rifle with one of the following:"

I think just saying that "the Fifth Suit" takes up less space then all the other stuff.  If it's that annoying, it can be changed.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- Burst Carbines should be a unit upgrae, not a Character exlusive. Maybe include a small price to it then?

What are you talking about?  They are possible as a unit upgrade.  In fact, it's right after the numbers allowed in the squad, just like the Fire Teams.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- You included upgrade options for the Character multiple times. You can condence it itnto a single option set like this: "The Lion Suit Lt may exchange his Burst Rifle and/or Burst Pistol for one of the following: Burst Carbine or CCW...free | Lightning Claw..........15pts | Beam Sword.............15pts | Power Fist...............25pts"

Because I haven't included the Armoury like 6th's Sergeants have, and I didn't think it fair to be able to have 2 Plasma Pistols going off the standard upgrade list.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- My first gripe about the fire team is the multiple Character types. This is bad in my opinion, as you need only one Character type per unit. Leave it at "Fire sergeant" and carry on ;)

And yet, IG can have 5 Characters in a single unit.  But each of these Characters each have a job to do.  The Lt's job is his Leadership, while the Sarge is more of a fighter and more practical.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- If you want to make up to four Fire Teams a single FOC choice, it is better to write just that under the unit name, like so: "You may include up to five Fire Teams in a single Troops slot." However, I'd highly recommend limiting how many Fire Team Slots can be taken, overwise they'll outnumber IG horrible, aspecially at their cost in pts.

Um, no, they can't.  When one can fit 120 models before vehicles in to an IG Platoon, I don't think a unit with a maximum size of 25 is going to be able to outnumber that or the 50 man Blob Squad any time soon.  Yeah, the Squad is a Vet upgrade more expensive, but they are also twice the size.

Now, your suggestion for writing them up is pointed.  I'll try writing it up and see how it looks.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- Please put a limit on that Missile upgrade. If this is a Troops choice, for just 720pts, you have 40 missile shots, which will undoubtably destroy the Flyer they're targeted at. Taking that to the extreme, thats 120 S6/S7 shots that'll hit on a 4+. Here is some rolls:
To hit: http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4203601/
To Penetrate (assuming AV11): http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4203602/
Thats 15 times these will either glance or penetrate most non-imperial flyers.

Well, they are One-Shots, so all that firepower is a one off.  Still, you do have a point.  It may be wise to limit them to just the 3 Fire Soldiers who have no other weapon options.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- The option for Special Weapons is semi-redundant with such fire-power available to the whole squad.

Not when such firepower is only available once per game.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- the upgrade option for upping Corps to sarges doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why not say "Up to two/three Corporals, may be upgraded to Sarges"? this assuming you keep the varying Characters.
- Again with the Upgrade to Leiutenant, say "One Corporal may be upgraded to a Leiutenant"

It's the personality of the army.  The number of Squads determines the amount of leadership required for the group.  A group of 15 only requires a Sergeant, while the command for 25 is set up for a Lt.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- Why cannot Leiutenants carry Meltabombs?

The Lt's job is to provide Leadership and Orders.  The NCOs are for practical work.  Consider it a quirk.  Much like your next question.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
- Why cannot the Corporal Carry a Special CC weapon?
- Why can only the Leiutenant carry a Plasma Pistol?

Cost and prestige.  No other real reason.

Quote from: Narric on September 03, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
With the exception being the Beam Sword. this thing would probably be best being Str7, and AP2. Its essential a Light saber, or maybe a sword made of Plasma. I don't think Rending is really needed after that change.

Maybe.  That may be good for a "Relic" weapon, but maybe a little too good for a 'common grunt' weapon, imo.

You see, I don't think that the One-Shot Missiles need limiting to only 3 men or whatever that can't carry other weapons; they are one shot, and whilst you can get 25 shots with one unit, that's 400pts on BS3 models.

If anything, increase the costs to 10pts each; then it's the same price as a Missile Launcher, but only one shot, and if someone wants to spend 500pts on a unit which is 210pts, you're got effectively Imperial Guardsmen which cost 13pts (the same as a Space Marine) who get one Missile Shot, which will miss half the time.

I really like the idea, myself. One trouble may be keeping track of who has used their Missile Launcher or not (new wound allocation rules from 6th)- maybe just have tokens? I bought 10 Missiles, so I get 10 Tokens by this unit, and in the Shooting Phase, it can fire (from a Fire Soldier model only) a Missile for each available Fire Soldier, who then cannot shoot that turn?

Just a little thought.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 04, 2013, 08:51:26 AM
You see, I don't think that the One-Shot Missiles need limiting to only 3 men or whatever that can't carry other weapons; they are one shot, and whilst you can get 25 shots with one unit, that's 400pts on BS3 models.

True, but I think I will keep it at 3 per squad for now.  I can always raise it or test it later at a full 5 or even 4.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 04, 2013, 08:51:26 AM
If anything, increase the costs to 10pts each; then it's the same price as a Missile Launcher, but only one shot, and if someone wants to spend 500pts on a unit which is 210pts, you're got effectively Imperial Guardsmen which cost 13pts (the same as a Space Marine) who get one Missile Shot, which will miss half the time.

10 points is too much.  An HK costs that much and is 1 Str higher than the Claw.  And a Missile Launcher is stronger and reloads.

Quote from: Rarity Declis on September 04, 2013, 08:51:26 AM
I really like the idea, myself. One trouble may be keeping track of who has used their Missile Launcher or not (new wound allocation rules from 6th)- maybe just have tokens? I bought 10 Missiles, so I get 10 Tokens by this unit, and in the Shooting Phase, it can fire (from a Fire Soldier model only) a Missile for each available Fire Soldier, who then cannot shoot that turn?

That is a good point.  The problem being that is not how the game is organized at the moment.  A good example for that is Seekers for a squad of Piranhas.  Just because 3 Piranhas out of 5 take them, doesn't mean the other 2 can fire them when they are dropped.

So, I'm pretty close to finishing most of the units up for this list.  I'm struggling a little bit on how to organize a light bomber (or even if I should) and some of the Special Character's rules, though.

But any way, quick question, which would you like to see next.  I have the Troops slot up, so should I post HQ, Elites, FA, HS, or the Special Character's next?

I say post them up in the order of HQ, Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. wait for some feedback then adjust and post the Special Characters last.

Looking forward to what you've worked on ^_^

Good plan.

Now, keep in mind these HQs are still a little rough, especially points and some of the options, and there are also six Special Characters in the HQ slot which will be listed later.  Equipment, Special Rules, and lists will be added later, it's starting to get late.

Angel Suit Commander

100 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Angel Commander

4

4

5

4

4

3

4

10

3+

Jump Infantry (Character)

1 Angel Commander

Wargear: Angel Battlesuit Burst Pistol Beam Sword

Wargear (Continued): Krak Grenades Special Rules: Independent Character Night Fighting Flight Form

Options: The Angel Commander may choose any items from the Commanders Weapons, Special Wargear, or Relics lists.

Flight Form
If any model with this rule uses their Jump Pack during the Movement Phase, they may make a special Turbo-Boost move instead of Running or firing in the Shooting Phase.  While using this Turbo-Boost move, these models may then move up to 12", move over all terrain and models freely, and receives the Jink special rule.  However, if the model begins or ends their movement in Difficult Terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.  The model may not end their movement on another model or in Impassible Terrain.  The model cannot shoot, charge or execute any other voluntary action for the rest of the turn after Turbo-boosting.

Lion Suit Commander

75 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Lion Commander

4

4

4

4

4

3

4

10

3+

Infantry (Character)

1 LionCommander

Wargear: Lion Battlesuit Burst Pistol Beam Sword

Wargear (Continued): Krak Grenades Special Rules: Bulky Independent Character Night Fighting

Options: The Lion Commander may choose any items from the Commanders Weapons, Special Wargear, or Relics lists.

Lion Command Squad

60 pts

You may take one Lion Command Squad per Lion Suit Commander, Ke'Tra Wit'ner, Sa'Xon Masqui, or Tries Kish'Ren.  This unit does not take up an HQ slot.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Veteran Lion 4 4 4 4 2 3 3 8 3+ Infantry 2 Veteran Lions Veteran Lion Lt 4 4 4 4 2 3 3 8 3+ Infantry (Character) Wargear: Lion Battlesuit Burst Pistol Burst Rifle Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Options: May add up to 2 more Veteran Lions.....................30 pts/model Any model may exchange their Burst Rifle for one of the following: Battlesuit Special Weapon Battlesuit Melee Weapon Close Combat Weapon...Free Burst Carbine..................Free If the Lion Command Squad has four models, the fourth may exchange their Burst Rifle for a Battlesuit Heavy Weapon. Upgrade one Lion Suit to Lion Suit Lt........10points The unit may take a Centurata as a Dedicated Transport.

Command Team

60 pts

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Veteran Fire Soldier 3 4 3 3 1 3 2 7 4+ Infantry 3 Veteran Fire Soldiers Fire Champion 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 7 4+ Infantry (Character) 1 Fire Champion Fire Commander 4 4 3 3 2 3 2 9 4+ Infantry (Character) Chained Psyker 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 - Infantry Wargear: Carapace Armour Light Pistol Light Rifle Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Psychic Hood (Chained Psyker) Special Rules: Battle Orders (Fire Commander) Psyker (Mastery Level 2, Chained Psyker) Psychic Bomb(Chained Psyker) Options: May add one Chained Psyker....30 pts Any model may exchange their Light Rifle for one of the following: Ranged Weapon Melee Weapon Close Combat Weapon......free Light Carbine.....................free Any model may exchange their Light Pistol for a Melee Weapon. The Fire Champion may purchase Meltabombs...................................5 pts Any Veteran Fire Soldier may purchase one of the following: Claw Missile.................8pts Talon Missile.......................8pts The unit may exchange their Carapace Armour for Stealth Armour..............................free The unit may be mounted on Bikes..........20 pts If not mounted on Bikes, the unit may take a Chimera or Hornet as a Dedicated Transport.

Psychic Bomb
A model with this rule may be voluntarily removed from play in its Movement Phase.  Doing so will cause all Warp Charges to be removed from any Psykers on the table and prevent Warp Charges from being generated until the unit's next Movement Phase.

Commander Weapons A Commander may exchange his Beam Sword for one of the following: - Lightning Claw..............................free - Power Fist...................................5 pts - Chain Fist..................................10 pts A Commander may exchange his Burst Pistol for one of the following: - Heavy Plasma Pistol..................15 pts - Lightning Claw..........................15 pts Battlesuit Melee Weapons A model may exchange one weapon for one of the following: - Lightning Claw..........................15 pts - Beam Sword..............................20 pts Range S AP Type - User 3 Melee, Rending - Power Fist.................................25 pts - Chain Fist..................................30 pts A model may exchange his Burst Pistol for one of the following: - Heavy Plasma Pistol..................15 pts - Lightning Claw..........................15 pts Battlesuit Special Weapons A Suit may replace one weapon with one of the following: - Flamer..........................................free - Meltagun..................................10 pts - Heavy Plasma Gun...................20 pts Range S AP Type 24" 7 2 Salvo 2/3, Gets Hot! Battlesuit Heavy Weapons A Suit may replace one weapon with one of the following: - Heavy Bolter..............................5 pts - Autocannon.............................10 pts - Multi-melta...............................10 pts - Beam Sword............................15 pts - Missile Launcher......................15 pts - Plasma Cannon.......................15 pts - Lascannon...............................20 pts

Melee Weapons A model may exchange his Light Rifle for one of the following: - Power Weapon..........................5 pts - Power Fist..................................5 pts A model may exchange his Light Pistol with: - Light Plasma Pistol...................15 pts Range S AP Type 12" 6 2 Pistol Ranged Weapons A model may replace a weapon with one of the following: - Flamer........................................5 pts - Grenade Launcher......................5 pts - Meltagun..................................10 pts - Light Stubber...........................10 pts Range S AP Type 30" 3 6 Salvo 2/5 - Plasma Rifle..............................15 pts Range S AP Type 24" 6 2 Rapid Fire Special Issue Wargear A model may take up to one of each of the following: - Melta Bombs...............................5 pts - Combat Shield............................5 pts A Combat Shield confers a 6+ Invulnerable Save. - Needlers.....................................5 pts Models equipped with Needlers do not suffer the penalty to their Initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal Initiative in the ensuing combat.  Needlers may also be fired in the Shooting Phase with the following profile: Range S AP Type 12" 2 - Assault 1, Twin-Linked - Shield Generator......................25 pts A Shield Generator confers a 4+ Invulnerable Save. Relics A model may take one of the following, limit one of each per army: - Zeomega Link...........................40 pts A model with a Zeomega Link grants the army a non-cumulative +1 to Steal Initiative, allows the army to reroll for Reserves.  In addition, this model and any unit it is with may fire in Overwatch at BS 2. - Zeomega System......................60 pts A model with the Zeomega System receives a +1 to BS, WS, A, and I.  At the beginning of every player turn, the model must take a Leadership Test.  If it passes, it may operate as normal.  If it fails, it must shoot at and charge the nearest unit, even if it is a friendly or allied unit.

Vehicle Equipment A model can take up to one of each of the following: - Searchlight.....................................1 pt - Dozer Blade..................................5 pts - Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubber.....5 pts - Extra Armour...............................10 pts - Hunter Killer Missile.....................10 pts

Edit: Added Light Stubber to Ranged Weapon list.
Edit 2: Added Vehicle Equipment.

Angel Suit Squad

90 pts

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv		Unit Type		Unit Composition
Angel Suit	4	4	4	4	2	3	2	8	3+		Jump Infantry		3 Angel Suits
Angel Suit Lt	4	4	4	4	2	3	2	9	3+		Jump Infantry (Character)

Wargear: Angel Battlesuit Burst Pistol Burst Rifle Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Night Fighting Flight Form

Options: May add up to 2 more Angel Suits.....................30 pts/model Any Angel Suit may exchange their Burst Rifle for a Close Combat Weapon or Burst Carbine..........................free One Angel Suit may take a Battlesuit Special Weapon. If the squad has five models, then one Angel Suit may take a Battlesuit Special Weapon or a: Beam Sword.....................15 pts

Upgrade one Angel Suit to Angel Suit Lt........10points The Angel Suit Lt may take Battlesuit Melee Weapons. If a Angel Suit Lt is purchased, all remaining Angel Suits may be upgraded with Iron Souls.......10pts/model

Golem Suit Squad

90 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Golem Suit

2

2

4

4

2

4

2

7

3+

Infantry

3 Golem Suits

Wargear: Golem Battlesuit Heavy Plasma Gun Iron Soul Shield System

Special Rules: Bulky Night Fighting Slow and Purposeful (But can fire Salvo as if moved in Overwatch)

Options: May add up to 2 more Golem Suits..........30 pts/model

Shield System
A Shield System confers a 5+ Invulnerable Save on the model and its unit.  If more than three models in the unit possess this system, all models gain a 4+ Invulnerable Save.

Water Team                                                           40 pts You may include up to five Water Teams in a single Elite choice. WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Water Soldier 4 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+ Infantry 4 Water Soldiers Water Corporal 4 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+ Infantry (Character) 1 Water Corporal Water Sarge 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 7 5+ Infantry (Character) Water Lt 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 5+ Infantry (Character) Wargear: Stealth Armour Light Pistol Light Carbine Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Combined Squad Combat Orders (Water Lt) Special Operations Options: Any model may exchange their Light Carbine with one of the following: Close Combat Weapon............................free Sniper Rifle...................................2 pts/model One Water Soldier per Squad may take a Ranged Weapon. Any other Water Soldier may purchase one of the following: Claw Missile..........8pts Talon Missile.........8pts If two or four Water Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade up to two Water Corporals to a Water Sarge................5 pts/model If five Water Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade one Water Corporal to a Water Lt.......10 pts/model Any Water Corporal or Water Sarge may purchase Meltabombs........5pts Any Water Sarge or Lt may take Melee Weapons. Each squad may take a Chimera or Hornet as a Dedicated Transport. Special Operations: Water Teams are not lightly cast into battle – they are always given a specific mission to achieve, too important to be entrusted to others.  Before deployment, declare to your opponent which mission each Water Team choice is following. Reconnaissance:  The reconnaissance mission grants Scouts and Move Through Cover special rules. Airborne Assault: The airborne assault mission grants the Deep Strike special rule, and allows the Water Team to re-roll the scatter dice when they Deep Strike. Behind Enemy Lines: The behind enemy lines mission grants the team the Infiltrate special rule and their weapons count as Pinning the first time the squad fires.

'Bout time I give you some feedback :P

HQ
I personally don't like HQs that aren't Ld10. It just seems to not work in my mind.

Also, as the Lion Commander and Angel Commander are practically the same unit with no differentiating rules, it would have been simpler to just make the Angel Suit and upgrade for the Lion Commander.

I like the Lion Command team, but why doesn't the angel Commander get a command team?

I assume the Regular Command team is the IG Option in practice. However its strange that only here do you include SRs for a HQ. They're also not easy to comment on, as you didn't include the rules for these rules.
I'd suggest including "Upgrade" to the unit comp for Fire commander and Chained Psyker. Including a statline can make it a little ambiguous otherwise.

Wargear
I'll say here, its an interesting method you've used to minimiss repeated text for wargear selection. I was genuinely surprised the Chaos Codex (and I assume later 6th ed coexi) don't do something similar.

Small error for Shield Generator, as you've writen "A Combat Shield confers a 4+ Invulnerable Save" ;)

Zeomega link seems a little OP, and there is an error.
"In addition, this model and any unit it is attached to may fire in Overtwatch at BS 2"
added in red what I assume you meant to include ;)

I think the Zeo-Sys could be a little cheaper. there is a chance that every player turn the pilot is going to go on a rampage, which isn't very useful at 60pts extra.

Elite
A little inconsistancy in the Angel suit. The Angel Commander is S5, while the regular suits are S4. If we assume pilot strength doesn't affect suit strength like Tau Battlesuits, then they should be the same.

I like the Squad Invul of the Golem suits, however it might be a good idea to include that they lose 4++ when their squad drops to 3-models or less. Otherwise someone will come along, lose one suit, and claim their unit still has 4++.

Error in Water teams:
"Any Water Corporal or Water Sarge may purchase Meltabombs........5pts"
Again, assumption in red ;)

---

Thats all I can really think to say right now. Looking great so far ^_^

HQ

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I personally don't like HQs that aren't Ld10. It just seems to not work in my mind.

Good Point, consider the Lion Suit changed, but the Command Team will remain the same, I think.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
Also, as the Lion Commander and Angel Commander are practically the same unit with no differentiating rules, it would have been simpler to just make the Angel Suit and upgrade for the Lion Commander.

Good Point, I will note the Special Rules for the Battlesuits in their own Special Rules.  I honestly couldn't think of any other unique SRs for the commanders.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I like the Lion Command team, but why doesn't the angel Commander get a command team?

Room is the only reason I can think of, and not everyone gets a command team.  It's not like it would be hard to change that, though, I suppose.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I assume the Regular Command team is the IG Option in practice. However its strange that only here do you include SRs for a HQ. They're also not easy to comment on, as you didn't include the rules for these rules.
I'd suggest including "Upgrade" to the unit comp for Fire commander and Chained Psyker. Including a statline can make it a little ambiguous otherwise.

Yeah, I need to work on the Chained Psyker a little.  How I want to construct him is not as an offensive Psyker, but purely defensive.  For story, those recognized as having the touch of the Warp fall in to several categories: Seers akin to Navigators, Voices akin to Astropaths and Choir, the Wild, and the Chained. 

The Chained are considered wild and unfocused by the population and the source of Daemon invasions if not properly confined.  This confinement includes a Psychic Hood which also amplifies their ability to block another psyker's abilities.  In addition, in times of crisis the Chains may be used to overload the Chained's mind causing him a painful death, but also causing a local dead zone in the Warp.

In game terms, I'm looking at him as always considered a Mastery Level 2 for Deny the Witch tests, but with no access to Disciplines or Force weapons.  Alternatively, the model may be voluntarily removed from play in its Movement Phase.  Doing so will cause all Warp Charges to be removed and unable to be generated until the unit's next Movement Phase.  But I'm not sure how well something like that would be received.  This model would be something completely within the 40K universe and having no real link to the AC195 universe of Gundam Wing.

The Fire Commander is supposed to be a bog standard infantry "Warlord" if you so choose, so having him as an upgrade is pointless.

Wargear

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I'll say here, its an interesting method you've used to minimiss repeated text for wargear selection. I was genuinely surprised the Chaos Codex (and I assume later 6th ed coexi) don't do something similar.

It's mostly similar to most of the 6th Edition Marine codices.  I realized that not all the models will have the same initial weapon, but will want to trade it out for the same kits.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
Small error for Shield Generator, as you've writen "A Combat Shield confers a 4+ Invulnerable Save" ;)

Woops, fixed.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
Zeomega link seems a little OP, and there is an error.
"In addition, this model and any unit it is attached to may fire in Overtwatch at BS 2"
added in red what I assume you meant to include ;)

Close enough.  How should I address it?  It is meant to replicate the ZERO strategic system used by Dorothy Catalonia on the Libra and how Quatre used it in the Sand Rock.  The system is a direct brain connection to a system to allow the pilot's mind to predict scenarios.  The Link is a "lighter" version meant for strategic use and guiding troops and units, and far less likely to overload the user.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I think the Zeo-Sys could be a little cheaper. there is a chance that every player turn the pilot is going to go on a rampage, which isn't very useful at 60pts extra.

Considering the bonuses, I wanted it expensive enough to considered seriously, even with the downside.  Should I swap the points with the Link?

Elite

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
A little inconsistancy in the Angel suit. The Angel Commander is S5, while the regular suits are S4. If we assume pilot strength doesn't affect suit strength like Tau Battlesuits, then they should be the same.

This may be an artifact, or it may not.  I'm debating on how strong the Taurus-based Angel suits should be.  Should they be as strong as the "Gundam" and Crisis Suits, or kept weaker to represent some trade offs of superior mobility?

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
I like the Squad Invul of the Golem suits, however it might be a good idea to include that they lose 4++ when their squad drops to 3-models or less. Otherwise someone will come along, lose one suit, and claim their unit still has 4++.

If they drop to 3 or less, then they don't meet the qualifications for the 4++ any more than when a Chaos Marine loses their stick.  Any suggestions on wording it better?

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
Error in Water teams:
"Any Water Corporal or Water Sarge may purchase Meltabombs........5pts"
Again, assumption in red ;)

Woops, fixed.

Quote from: Narric on December 02, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
Thats all I can really think to say right now. Looking great so far ^_^

Thank you.  Hopefully I will be able to do the Special Characters justice.  I'm concerned about the point costs and if the Gundams should have their "space" upgrades.  I won't be going as far as Endless Waltz at all, but it is a consideration...

Raven Suit Squad

60 pts

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv		Unit Type		Unit Composition
Raven Suit	3	3	4	4	1	3	1	8	4+		Jet Bike		3 Raven Suits
Raven Suit Lt	4	4	4	4	1	3	2	9	4+		Jet Bike (Character)

Wargear: Raven Battlesuit Boltgun Bolt Pistol Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Deep Strike Night Fighting

Options: May add up to 7 more Raven Suits.....................20 pts/model Any Raven Suit may exchange their Boltgun for a Close Combat Weapon..........................free For every three Raven Suits in the squad, one Raven Suit may replace their Boltgun with one of the following: Battlesuit Special Weapon Missile Pod................15 pts

Upgrade one Raven Suit to Raven Suit Lt........10points The Raven Suit Lt may take Battlesuit Melee Weapons. If a Raven Suit Lt is purchased, all remaining Raven Suits may be upgraded with Iron Souls.......10pts/model

Wind Team                                                           45 pts You may include up to five Wind Teams in a single Elite choice. WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Wind Rider 3 3 3 4 1 3 1 7 4+ Bike 3 Wind Riders Wind Corporal 3 3 3 4 1 3 1 7 4+ Bike (Character) 1 Wind Corporal Wind Sarge 4 4 3 4 1 3 2 7 4+ Bike (Character) Wind Lt 4 4 3 4 1 3 2 8 4+ Bike (Character) Wargear: Carapace Armour Light Pistol Light Carbine Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Combined Squad Combat Orders (Wind Lt) Options: Any model may exchange their Light Carbine for a Close Combat Weapon..................free One Wind Rider per Squad may take a Ranged Weapon. Any other Wind Rider may purchase one of the following: Claw Missile..........8pts Talon Missile.........8pts If two or four Wind Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade up to two Wind Corporals to a Wind Sarge................5 pts/model If five Wind Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade one Wind Corporal to a Wind Lt.......10 pts/model Any Wind Corporal or Wind Sarge may purchase Meltabombs........5pts Any Wind Sarge or Lt may take Melee Weapons.

Wasp Gunship

45 pts

	BS	F	S	R	HP	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Wasp	3	10	10	10	2	Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer)	1 Wasp

Wargear: Heavy Bolter Special Rules: Deep Strike Scout

Options: May take up to 3 more Wasps.......45 pts/model Any Wasp may replace its heavy bolter with any of the following: Autocannon................................10 pts Multi-melta.................................10 pts Any Wasp may add one of the following: Two Talon Missiles......................16 pts Two Claw Missiles.......................16 pts

In addition, any Wasp may add one of the following: ­Multiple Rocket Pod.....................15 pts ­Two Claw Missiles.......................16 pts ­Two Hunter-Killer Missiles............20 pts Twin-linked Assault Cannon........40 pts

Peregrine Interceptor

145 pts

	BS	F	S	R	HP	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Peregrine	3	11	10	10	2	Vehicle (Flyer)	1 Peregrine

Wargear: Twin-linked Assault Cannon Six Talon Missiles

Options: May take one more Peregrine.......145 pts/model Any Peregrine may exchange one pair of Talon Missiles for one of the following: Twin-linked Assault Cannon.......25 pts Twin-linked Lascannon...............30 pts

Any Peregrine may exchange any pair of Talon Missiles for any of the following: ­Two Pinfeather Missiles.............10 pts ­Two Hunter-Killer Missiles............10 pts Two Cluster Bombs......................15 pts

Pinfeather Missiles

Range	S	AP	Type
36"	7	3	Heavy 1, Interceptor, One Use Only

Cluster Bombs

Range	S	AP	Type
-	4	6	Heavy 2, Bomb, Blast, Ignores Cover, One Use Only

Dragon Suit Squad

60 pts

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv		Unit Type		Unit Composition
Dragon Suit	3	3	4	5	3	3	2	7	2+		Infantry		1 Dragon Suit
Dragon Suit Lt	4	4	4	5	3	3	3	8	2+		Infantry (Character)

Wargear: Dragon Battlesuit Burst Rifle Twin-linked Burst Cannon Assault Grenades Krak Grenades Special Rules: Extremely Bulky Night Fighting Slow and Purposeful (but may fire Pistol, Assault, Rapid Fire, and Salvo Weapons in Overwatch, but count as having moved.)

Options: May add up to 2 more Dragon Suits.....................60 pts/model Any Dragon Suit may exchange their Twin-linked Heavy Bolter with one of the following: Twin-linked Heavy Bolter.......10 pts Twin-linked Multimelta............10 pts Twin-linked Autocannon.........15 pts Twin-linked Lascannon...........20 pts

Upgrade one Dragon Suit to Dragon Suit Lt........10points The Dragon Suit Lt may exchange his Burst Rifle for one of the following: Burst Cannon................5 pts Lightning Claw..............15 pts Beam Sword.................20 pts Dual Lightning Claws....25 pts Power Fist.....................25 pts If a Dragon Suit Lt is purchased, all remaining Dragon Suits may be upgraded with Iron Souls.......10pts/model

Earth Team                                                           60 pts You may include up to three Earth Teams in a single Elite choice. WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv Unit Type Unit Composition Earth Cannon - - - 7 2 - - - 3+ Artillery 1 Earth Cannon Earth Gunner 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+ Artillery 1 Earth Gunner Earth Corporal 4 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+ Artillery (Character) 1 Earth Corporal Earth Lt 4 4 3 3 1 3 2 8 5+ Artillery (Character) Wargear: Flak Armour Light Pistol Krak Grenades Heavy Rip Cannon (Earth Cannon) Special Rules: Combined Squad Combat Orders (Earth Lt) Earthworks Options: The Earth Cannon may replace its Heavy Rip Cannon with one of the following: Heavy Flakk Gun..............free Heavy Plasma Cannon....10 pts Howitzer..........................15 pts Heavy Lascannon............25 pts Any Earth Gunner may purchase one of the following: Claw Missile..........8pts Talon Missile.........8pts If three Earth Team Squads are purchased in a single Choice, you may upgrade one Earth Corporal to a Earth Lt.......10 pts/model

Heavy Rip Cannon Range S AP Type 48" 7 4 Ordnance 2, Rending Heavy Flakk Gun Range S AP Type 36" 6 - Ordnance 3, Rending, Skyfire, Twin-linked. Heavy Plasma Cannon Range S AP Type 36" 7 2 Ordnance 1, Blast, Gets Hot!

Howitzer Range S AP Type -Frag 18-72" 6 5 Ordnance 1, Barrage, Large Blast -Krak 18-72" 8 3 Ordnance 1, Barrage, Blast Heavy Lascannon Range S AP Type 48" 9 2 Ordnance 1

Custodian

155 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Custodian

4

4

6

6

5

4

3

8

3+

Monstrous Creature

1 Custodian

Wargear: Custodian Battlesuit Beam Rifle Beam Sword Twin-linked Burst Carbine Needlers Shield Generator Thruster Special Rules: Night Fighting

Options: May exchange Thruster for Verniers.......50 pts May exchange Beam sword for one of the following: Lightning Claw..............free Power Fist................15 pts Chain Fist.................25 pts

May exchange Beam rifle for one of the following: Multi-melta......................free Missile Launcher.............5 pts Plasma Cannon..............5 pts Lascannon....................10 pts

Beam Rifle

Range	S	AP	Type
42"	7	4	Heavy 3

Needlers
Models equipped with Needlers do not suffer the penalty to their Initiative for charging enemies through cover, but fight at their normal Initiative in the ensuing combat.  Needlers may also be fired in the Shooting Phase with the following profile:

Range	S	AP	Type
12"	2	-	Assault 1, Twin-linked

Thruster
A Battlesuit with a Thruster may roll 3D6 to determine their Charge range, and use the highest 2D6.  In Addition, it may make a Run move in the Assault Phase if it did not fire any Heavy or Ordnance weapons.

Verniers
A Battlesuit with Verniers changes their unit type to Flying Monstrous Creature.

Luilfr

115 pts

	BS	F	S	R	HP	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Luilfr	3	13	12	11	3	Vehicle (Tank)	1 Luilfr

Wargear: Rip Cannon Heavy Bolter

Options: May add one more Luilfr.......115 pts/model Any Luilfr may replace its Rip Cannon with any of the following: Twin-linked Lascannon.........20 pts Dominator battle cannon..........35 pts

Each Luilfr may exchange its Heavy bolter for one of the following: ­Burst Cannon....................free Heavy Flamer.......................free Each Luilfr may take items from the Vehicle Equipment List.

Dominator Battle Cannon

	Range	S	AP	Type
-Canister	Template	3	5	Heavy 1, Shred, Torrent
-HEAT	72"	8	1	Heavy 1, Armourbane

Chimera Armoured Transport

55 pts

As in Imperial Guard codex, more or less.

Centurata

50 pts

	BS	F	S	R	HP	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Centurata	3	12	11	10	3	Vehicle (Tank, Transport)	1 Centurata

Wargear: Multi-laser Searchlight Smoke Launchers

Transport Capacity: 10 models

Options: May replace the Multi-laser with one of the following: Heavy Flamer.........free Heavy Bolter..........free

May take items from the Vehicle Equipment List.

Hornet

40 pts

	BS	F	S	R	HP	Unit Type	Unit Composition
Hornet	3	10	10	10	2	Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer, Transport)	1 Hornet

Wargear: Multi-laser Transport Capacity: 10 models

Special Rules: Deep Strike Scout

Options: May replace the Multi-laser with one of the following: Heavy Flamer.........free Heavy Bolter..........free

May add one of the following: Twin-linked Heavy Bolter........10 pts Two Claw Missiles......15 pts Two Talon Missiles.....15 pts Multiple Rocket Pod....20 pts

Traes Kish'Ren

210 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Traes Kish'Ren

4

4

6

6

6

4

4

10

3+

Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Custodian Battlesuit Beam Rifle

Beam Sword Twin-linked Burst Carbine

Needlers Shield Generator Verniers

Special Rules: Rites of War

Rites of War:
If Tries Kish'Ren is in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord.  In addition, all Angel, Custodian, Dragon, Lion, and Raven Battlesuits have the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule.

Sa'xon Masqui

235 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Sa'xon Masqui

5

4

6

6

6

4

4

9

3+

Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Custodian Battlesuit Rip Cannon

Beam Sword Twin-linked Burst Carbine

Needlers Shield Generator Verniers

Ma'Liado Paz'Croft

255 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Ma'Liado Paz'Croft

5

4

6

6

5

4

4

9

2+

Flying Monstrous Creature (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Shield Generator Thruster

Verniers Needlers

Relics: Daemon Battlesuit Power Whip

Heavy Beam Sword Zeomega System

Master of the Soulless: A detachment that contains Ma'Liado Paz'Croft may take Golem Suit Squads as Troops or Elites.

Daemon Battlesuit
The Daemon Battlesuit confers a 2+Armour Save, The Night Fighting special rule, and the Flying Monstrous Creature unit type as described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Power Whip
The Power Whip adds D3 attacks to the models Vector Strike.  In addition, it may  be used as a melee weapon with the following profile.

Range	S	AP	Type
-	User	3	Melee, Multiple Attacks, Specialist Weapon

Multiple Attacks: The Power Whip gives D3 Attacks in melee.

Heavy Beam Sword

Range	S	AP	Type
-	+2	3	Melee, Rending

Ke'Tra Wit'ner

185 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Ke'Tra Wit'ner

4

4

5

5

4

4

3

9

2+

Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Two Power Swords Boltgun Shield Generator Failsafe Detonator

Thrusters Stimulant Injector Needlers

Special Rules: Gatherer of Pilots Gue'nam Pilot Independent Character Relentless Smash

Options: May take one of the following: Zeomega System.....40 pts Zeomega Link..............60 pts

Failsafe Detonator
A model with a Failsafe Detonator that loses its last Wound in Combat grants any unit it is with the Hit & Run Special Rule which it must use and is considered to have passed the Initiative test, leaving this model in place.  Before removing the model, but after moving any models that have moved from Hit & Run, or if the model is alone, place a Large Blast marker centered over the model.  Any units with models under template receive one Strength: 6, AP: – hit per model under the template.  The model may also activate the Failsafe Detonator during any Assault Phase.

Stimulant Injector
A Stimulant Injector confers the Feel No Pain special rule.

Gatherer of Pilots
Other units with the Gue'nam Pilot special rule in an army with Ke'Tra Wit'ner as the Warlord do not take up an FOC choice in their slot.

Gue'nam Pilot
All models with the Gue'nam Pilot rule have the Eternal Warrior and Fearless special rules.

Captain Li'Zeena Nox

235 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Captain Li'Zeena Nox

4

4

4

4

3

4

3

9

4+

Jet Bike (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Raven Battlesuit Burst Carbine

Assault Grenades Krak Grenades

Special Rules: Independent Character Love is a battlefield

Flight Instructor: A detachment that contains Captain Li'Zeena Nox may take Raven Suit Squads as Troops or Fast Attack.

Love is a battlefield
If Sa'xon Masqui or Ma'Liado Paz'Croft is within 6" of Li'Zeena Nox or any unit she has joined, he may make a Look Out Sir! attempt with that unit as if he was within it.

Major Li'Zeena Nox

235 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Major Li'Zeena Nox

4

4

5

4

4

4

3

9

3+

Jump Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Angel Battlesuit Burst Carbine

Two Beam Swords Needlers

Special Rules: Independent Character Love is a battlefield

Royal Guard: A detachment that contains Major Li'Zeena Nox may take Angel Suit Squads as Troops or Elites.

Vector VIII & Hermacles

305 pts

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv		Unit Type		Unit Composition
Hermacles	4	3	5	4	3	4	3	9	3+		Jet Pack Infantry (Character)		1 (Unique)
Vector VIII	3	4	5	4	3	4	2	9	3+		Jet Pack Infantry (Character)		1 (Unique)

Wargear: Burst Pistol (Hermacles) Failsafe Detonator (Hermacles) Needlers Beam Sword (Hermacles)

Relics: Railgun (Vector VIII) Advanced Shield System (Hermacles)

Special Rules: Hammer and Anvil Night Fighting Stubborn Split Fire Sneak Shot

Options: Both Vector VIII and Hermacles may be upgraded with an Iron Soul........40 Points

Advanced Shield System
The Advanced Shield System provides a 4+ Invulnerable Save to every model in the unit.

Hammer and Anvil
When the unit charges, if Hermacles or an Independent Character are in the unit, Vector VIII does not charge the full distance or move to be in base contact during Pile In, it just moves to be maintain normal cohesion with the rest of the unit.

Sneak Shot
If not in base contact in melee, the Railgun can be used instead of normal Attacks for a single Str: 10, AP: 1 attack at Initiative 1.

Shu-Fei

185 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Shu-Fei

4

4

5

4

4

4

3

9

3+

Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Failsafe Detonator Shield Generator

Stimulant Injector Needlers Thrusters

Relics Beam Spear Dragon Fang

Special Rules: Gue'nam Pilot

Beam Spear

Range	S	AP	Type
-	+1/User*	3/4*	Melee, Rending

* The Beam Spear has two profiles for both Strength and AP.  The first is used only on a turn in which a model charges; the second is used at all other times.

Dragon Fang
The Dragon Fang provides the model with the Hammer of Wrath special rule.  In addition, it comes equipped with a Heavy Flamer.

Deuce Mit'Chell

195 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Deuce Mit'Chell

4

4

5

4

4

4

3

9

3+

Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Failsafe Detonator Shield Generator

Stimulant Injector Needlers Thrusters

Relics Beam Scythe Power Drill

Special Rules: Gue'nam Pilot Stealth Infiltrate

Beam Scythe

Range	S	AP	Type
-	+2	2	Melee, Rending, Unwieldy

Power Drill

Range	S	AP	Type
12"	6	3	Assault 1, Rending

Hee'row Ya'way

195 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Hee'row Ya'way

4

4

5

4

4

4

4

9

3+

Jump Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Beam Sword Failsafe Detonator Shield Generator

Stimulant Injector Needlers

Relics Plasma Storm Gun

Special Rules: Gue'nam Pilot Flight Form

Plasma Storm Gun

Range	S	AP	Type
24"	7	2	Assault 2, Gets Hot!
36"	7	2	Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot!

Tro'ha Bear'son

200 pts

WS

BS

S

T

W

I

A

Ld

Sv

Unit Type

Unit Composition

Tro'ha Bear'son

4

4

5

4

4

4

3

9

2+

Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear: Twin-linked Burst Cannon Failsafe Detonator Combat Shield

Stimulant Injector Needlers

Relics Advanced Multi-Lock Heavy Grenade Launcher Long-Barreled Assault Cannon

Special Rules: Gue'nam Pilot

Advanced Multi-lock
The Advanced Multi-lock allows the model to fire an additional weapon in each Shooting phase if it moves.  If the model does not move, it may fire every weapon it has, and may choose two targets to shoot at.  Note that each weapon still may only fire once each Shooting phase.

Heavy Grenade Launcher

	Range	S	AP	Type
Frag	24"	3	6	Assault 2, Blast
Krak	24"	6	4	Assault 2

Long-barreled Assault Cannon

Range	S	AP	Type
36"	6	4	Heavy 4, Rending

---

And so that's the complete list so far.  I haven't set up to have the upgrades that the Gundam pilots received halfway through the show, and wonder if I even should include them or just set them up as starting that way.  But most importantly, I would like some feedback on the point scales and some of the concerns presented, if possible.

Fast Attack
Wind Team
Wind Lt has the unit type of Infantry.

Peregrine Interceptor
Where is the description of the "Bomb" rule for Cluster Bombs?

Heavy Support
Dragon Suit Squad
It may be easier to replace Slow and Purposeful with a more "Specialised" unique rule, as the USAR obviously doesn't quite fit with you intentions.

Burst Cannons are -1AP and Assault iirc, but other than that they're same Str & shot output. Might be better to have Burst Cannons as the Standard Gear, with Heavy Bolters the upgrade for 2-5pts each.

Earth Team
says "three wind teams" in that little bit before the stats ;)

I personally don't see many Artillery units in 40k, and the Rulebook isn't helpful on the subject.

I personally don't think the Claw and Talon Missiles should be included in this unit. The crew are meant to operate the Artillery, not fired their own weaponry.

Luiflr
Is there a difference between a Heavy Rip Cannon, and a Rip Cannon?

Dedicated Transports
Hornet
In terms of usefulness, the Claw and talon Missiles aren't very appealing choices, as they're only one-shots. The TL Heavy Bolters and MRP would win out due to the relatively limitless number of shots they can put out compared to the Claw and Talon missiles.

HQ SCs
Ld9 doesn't look appealing on a normal HQ choice, so on a Special Character it just looks weird. ;)

Ma'Liado Paz'Croft
At Str8, do you really need a chance for AP2? S8 AP3 will take out most enemy units, and for something like Terminators you should soften them up with some AP2 to begin with.

Li'Zeena Nox
You should probably include somewhere that you can't take both Li'Zeena Nox units. To some this would be obvious, but it doesn't hurt to be too cautiuous with this.

Non-HQ SCs
Shu-Fei
His Dragon Fang becomes a Dragon Fan in its rules :P

---

for the most part, thats all I can comment on. Most of the Point scales seem to be in the right place, but only Playtesting can really tell you for definate.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Fast Attack
Wind Team
Wind Lt has the unit type of Infantry.

Woops, fixed.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AMPeregrine Interceptor
Where is the description of the "Bomb" rule for Cluster Bombs?

Page 81 of the BRB.  Same as for the Sunshark's Pulse Bomb.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Heavy Support
Dragon Suit Squad
It may be easier to replace Slow and Purposeful with a more "Specialised" unique rule, as the USAR obviously doesn't quite fit with you intentions.

It's actually part of the Dragon Suit's special rules, it was just put in the bolded section for convenience instead of listing the Armour.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AMBurst Cannons are -1AP and Assault iirc, but other than that they're same Str & shot output. Might be better to have Burst Cannons as the Standard Gear, with Heavy Bolters the upgrade for 2-5pts each.

Assault 4 vs Heavy 3.  Range 18 vs Range 36.  AP: 5 vs AP: 4.  Assault has better Overwatch capabilities for this suit.  But you have a point.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AMEarth Team
says "three wind teams" in that little bit before the stats ;)

Thank you.  Fixed.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
I personally don't see many Artillery units in 40k, and the Rulebook isn't helpful on the subject.

I went by the Thunderfire Cannon, mostly.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
I personally don't think the Claw and Talon Missiles should be included in this unit. The crew are meant to operate the Artillery, not fired their own weaponry.

True, but only one is required to fire it, the rest may join in with their own weapons if they so choose.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Luiflr
Is there a difference between a Heavy Rip Cannon, and a Rip Cannon?

I thought I posted the stats on them.  One is Ordnance, the other is Heavy.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Dedicated Transports
Hornet
In terms of usefulness, the Claw and talon Missiles aren't very appealing choices, as they're only one-shots. The TL Heavy Bolters and MRP would win out due to the relatively limitless number of shots they can put out compared to the Claw and Talon missiles.

In most cases, yes, but there are no other AV weapons available to it.  That's where those weapons become useful as an option.  This vehicle is intended to be similar to the military version of the light helicopters like the MD-500 and Jet Ranger.  The additional weapons are mounted on the side and have very limited weight options.  These usually are machine guns, hellfires, stingers, or rocket pods.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
HQ SCs
Ld9 doesn't look appealing on a normal HQ choice, so on a Special Character it just looks weird. ;)

Not unusual for non-Independents who will not be using their Leadership for anyone but themselves (see Daemon Princes) or are Fearless.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Ma'Liado Paz'Croft
At Str8, do you really need a chance for AP2? S8 AP3 will take out most enemy units, and for something like Terminators you should soften them up with some AP2 to begin with.

He's already AP: 2 from Smash.  The Rending is purely for Vehicles and because all Beam weapons are Rending.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Li'Zeena Nox
You should probably include somewhere that you can't take both Li'Zeena Nox units. To some this would be obvious, but it doesn't hurt to be too cautiuous with this.

Good point, I may need to make one the upgrade...

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AM
Non-HQ SCs
Shu-Fei
His Dragon Fang becomes a Dragon Fan in its rules :P

Whoopsie again.  Dang spell check.

Quote from: Narric on January 09, 2014, 09:27:16 AMfor the most part, thats all I can comment on. Most of the Point scales seem to be in the right place, but only Playtesting can really tell you for definate.

True.  Some people are better at "seeing" the values without putting them in the field, though.

Hey dude, is it posssible you could give me some visual reference for what each unit is inspired by from the Gundam series? I assume Lion is the Leos Mobile Suit, and Raven the Aries?

Keep in mind that each isn't supposed to be a 100% port.  I kept each one in mind when I wrote up some of the rules, but I also kept in mind the Warhammer source material when making it.  For example, the Aries is a lighter, over-engined mecha designed for flight, which none of the Tau Battlesuits are really designed for.  I also needed something to represent Corax from the "Primarch Zodiac".  So, I took the Stealth Suits, made them Jet Bikes to account for their extreme maneuverability, and went from there.  A direct port from Gundam Wing would have the Ares as a FMC on its own, maybe even a Jet Pack FMC.

For the Production units:
Lion Suit is the Leo: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-06MS_Leo (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-06MS_Leo).
Angel Suit is the Taurus: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-12SMS_Taurus (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-12SMS_Taurus).
Golem Suit is the Virgo: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-02MD_Virgo (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-02MD_Virgo).
Raven Suit is the Ares: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-07AMS_Aries (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-07AMS_Aries).
Dragon Suit is the Tragos: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-07MS_Tragos (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-07MS_Tragos).
Custodian is based on the Tallgeese: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS_Tallgeese (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS_Tallgeese).
The Leo Command could be also be Maganac: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/WMS-03_Maganac (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/WMS-03_Maganac).

For the Characters:
Treis Kish'Ren is based on the Tallgeese II: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS2_Tallgeese_II (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS2_Tallgeese_II).
Sa'xon Masqui is based on the Tallgeese: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS_Tallgeese (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-00MS_Tallgeese).
Ma'Liado Paz'Croft is based on the Epyon: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MS_Gundam_Epyon (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MS_Gundam_Epyon).
Ke'Tra Wit'ner is based on the Sand Rock: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01SR_Gundam_Sandrock (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01SR_Gundam_Sandrock).
Vector VIII is based on the Veyeate: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MSX1_Vayeate (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MSX1_Vayeate).
Hermacles is based on the Mercurius: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MSX1_Vayeate (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/OZ-13MSX1_Vayeate).
Shu-Fei is based on the Shenlong: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01S_Shenlong_Gundam (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01S_Shenlong_Gundam).
Deuce Mit'Chell is based on the Deathscythe: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01D_Gundam_Deathscythe (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01D_Gundam_Deathscythe).
Hee'row Ya'way is based on the Wing Gundam: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01W_Wing_Gundam (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01W_Wing_Gundam).
Tro'ha Bear'son is based on the HeavyArms: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01H_Gundam_Heavyarms (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-01H_Gundam_Heavyarms).

I didn't bring the images directly over to avoid copyright questions, but linked the gundam wikia to provide an easy access.

Thats awesome :D

Quote from: Charistoph on March 29, 2014, 08:59:18 PM
A direct port from Gundam Wing would have the Ares as a FMC on its own, maybe even a Jet Pack FMC.

The idea of a Flying MC needing a Jet Pack seems daft, but having just looked up the rules, it seems like a deadly combination, especially if the unit were dedicated assault.

Just so you know, my current playtest had a Centaurata destroyed by a single Lascannon shot to the side armour. And my current thoughts are the Golems could do with some Anti-tank becuase they're currently just stalling a Dreadnought in Close Combat, with now way to damage it themselves. Maybe give them a piece of equipment  that equates a Krak/Melta grenade?

I'm probably playing them too aggressively, but Missile Raven Squads are fairly decent against MEq units. Definately should take on even 5 lone Tacticals without ranged support, as their 4+ Armour feels very flimsy. But again, i'm playing them potentially over aggressively.

While I can understand the reasoning behind it, the differing BS levels due to Lts can be a little bit bumpy. IG Sergeants are often the same BS as the rest of their squad, so I currently don't see why a Lt of a Gue'nam unit would be one higher.
I assume you took the idea from SM Scouts, but in that case it makes sense in regards to fluff, as the Sergeants are often decades older then their squad, rather than just a couples years in the case of IG, and but assumed extension Gue'nam.

I think thats enough rambling from me :P

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Thats awesome :D

Quote from: Charistoph on March 29, 2014, 08:59:18 PM
A direct port from Gundam Wing would have the Ares as a FMC on its own, maybe even a Jet Pack FMC.

The idea of a Flying MC needing a Jet Pack seems daft, but having just looked up the rules, it seems like a deadly combination, especially if the unit were dedicated assault.

Jet Pack units are not usually dedicated to Assault, but gunnery units who can then move to cover after shooting.  But still, can move very rapidly for an Assault unit if chosen.

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Just so you know, my current playtest had a Centaurata destroyed by a single Lascannon shot to the side armour.

Well, it's not intended to be a Land Raider, and just a little tougher than a Chimera or Rhino on that section, and just as tough as a Devilfish.

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
And my current thoughts are the Golems could do with some Anti-tank becuase they're currently just stalling a Dreadnought in Close Combat, with now way to damage it themselves. Maybe give them a piece of equipment  that equates a Krak/Melta grenade?

Possibly.  In the show, one of the ways to "easily" deal with the Virgos were to close in where their shields would have a hard time reacting or be overloaded.  It is intended to be a fire support unit.  Still you have a point, as they are Fearless.  I'll think on it.

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
I'm probably playing them too aggressively, but Missile Raven Squads are fairly decent against MEq units. Definately should take on even 5 lone Tacticals without ranged support, as their 4+ Armour feels very flimsy. But again, i'm playing them potentially over aggressively.

Maybe too aggressively, I can't say.  But, they are definitely more dedicated to Shooting than other units. 

The Missile Pod is a nasty weapon, and if the show didn't have them used a lot, I might have left it off.  What if they were made Skyfire?

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
While I can understand the reasoning behind it, the differing BS levels due to Lts can be a little bit bumpy. IG Sergeants are often the same BS as the rest of their squad, so I currently don't see why a Lt of a Gue'nam unit would be one higher.
I assume you took the idea from SM Scouts, but in that case it makes sense in regards to fluff, as the Sergeants are often decades older then their squad, rather than just a couples years in the case of IG, and but assumed extension Gue'nam.

It's a hard thing to say.  I guess it depends on what the Lt is supposed to bring to the squad, really.  This is an odd dichotomy of mixing three different groups together to try and make a whole.  On one hand, I want to show the Lt as some sort of Veteran, so the increased Skill would make sense, but it does make it a pain in the game on the other hand.  Should I just reduce his skills to the squad, but do as the Lts in the non-Suit squads do and give extra USRs?

Quote from: Narric on March 29, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
I think thats enough rambling from me :P

Not rambling, at least you're testing it.  If I wasn't so focused on building up my Templars and Iron Kingdoms, I might have tried it myself by now.

Moving along, I haven't put up any Warlord Traits (a little nervous about those), and Allies.  Thoughts or suggestions on those would be nice.