Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!

[Charistoph]

A lot of this sounds promising... Although I am getting fed up of Black Templar players bitching about being merged.... Yes, I'd like a codex of our own, but with the rules as are in the C:SM and a supplement on the way, I think we're getting some lovin!

"Some" being the operative word.  While model and unit expansion is great, we've pretty much lost everything else that makes us Templars that doesn't involve models.

Meanwhile, other codices which have had an easier time being folded in (Angels), were given even more crap to play with.  We're getting the middle finger and some are saying, "at least it's well manicured."

[Chris]

I disagree... We can play a pretty good army with the bog standard C:SM stuff... The two traits sound like they could be very good, and the EC is now a combat challenge MONSTER! and with the promise of a supplement on the way, its going to get very good...

[Narric]

The EC was already a mopnster in Combat He hasn't changed, aside from having some tweaks a-la SMurf

Different Chapters of Space Marines can easily be represented by the 5th Ed codex, and the Blood Angels Codex. Black Templars are Crusaders and so have a Crusade structure, not a Chapter Structure.

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.

[Charistoph]

I disagree... We can play a pretty good army with the bog standard C:SM stuff... The two traits sound like they could be very good, and the EC is now a combat challenge MONSTER! and with the promise of a supplement on the way, its going to get very good...

Um...  2 Traits (which MAY be only 1 can be used) to replace about 4 Army Special Rules...  Yeah, that's awesome.

If I wanted to play Codex Rowboat, I would be PLAYING Codex Rowboat.  Instead I want to play Codex Emperor's Champions.  Is that really too much to ask?

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.

Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement...

[Mabbz]

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.

If you're going to claim that Eldar should be supplemented before Space Marine because they're more diverse, I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  . I've gotten into many arguments at my local GW when I've said that SMurfs shouldn't have more codexi than the Guard.

All in all, I'm just glad that they're reducing the number of SM codexi. I always hated the fact that they got five different codexi when other, more deserving armies had to make do with one.

[Narric]

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.

Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement...

I was thinking I was wrong on that. I couldn't remember anyone even talking about an Eldar Supplement, let alone even see it on the GW site.

Thinking on it, I find it strange that SMurfs are getting a Supplement before Eldar, who could be said to have even greater need, due to the wide variety of actual cultures that the Craftworlds hold.

If you're going to claim that Eldar should be supplemented before Space Marine because they're more diverse, I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  . I've gotten into many arguments at my local GW when I've said that SMurfs shouldn't have more codexi than the Guard.

All in all, I'm just glad that they're reducing the number of SM codexi. I always hated the fact that they got five different codexi when other, more deserving armies had to make do with one.

Heh, that does make sense. They even make a point of describing a couple other Regiments that aren't Cadian or catachan in the Codex. I can agree that IG should have equal if not more Codexi than SMurfs

[salamut2202]

I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  . I

A very good friend of mine who has some pretty evil looking slaaneshi traitor guard is making blood sacrifices in hope that it will make it more likely that this supplement business will result in a Lost and Damned book.

[Narric]

I have to point out that the IG actually described in the codex as "the most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy"  . I

A very good friend of mine who has some pretty evil looking slaaneshi traitor guard is making blood sacrifices in hope that it will make it more likely that this supplement business will result in a Lost and Damned book.

If he captures some GW designers, it may be more likely

[Charistoph]

Iyanden Eldar were the first Supplement...

I was thinking I was wrong on that. I couldn't remember anyone even talking about an Eldar Supplement, let alone even see it on the GW site.

Iyanden was indeed the first, and currently the only one that cannot ally with its parent codex...  It's also the only one available in dead tree form.  Farsight and Black Legion are both still digital.

[Chris]

I like the way they are making supplements for what would normally have been its own codex. Its consolidating and condensing so it doesn't seem so daunting for newbie, whilst offering the diversity of an individual codex. There is little new news flowing, so I guess its just a wait and see until the 7th of Sept! At least we shall get some form of confirmation on some of the stuff when the new White Dwarf comes out next week!

[Begel Dverl]

Mah bruvars.

I come...

bearing gifts!

Spoiler

Strikeforce is the replacement for the Battleforce but instead a "starter army" box built around a theme of some kind. So more of starter box than the current Battleforce is. Every army will get one eventually that will be named after something relevant to that army (example: Wraithhost for Eldar).

240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters. 60 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps.

Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover

"Chapter Tactics I got to use that one turn" < Ultramarines CT

Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.

176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)

Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.

Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.

Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.

Book is in sections for each chapter and a large number of the Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.

Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.

"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.

Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.


Warlord Traits - Only Chart for the Codex 
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn. (Sicarius has this one!)
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single frienly unit from Codex: Space Marines may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.


Chapter Tactics 

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: 
This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.

White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.

Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Bolter Drill - Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
Siegemasters - Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME 
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Astisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 
Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics.

Black Templars: + Gains / - Losses (might not be a complete list)
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same


Special Characters:
Marneus Calgar: 
- 275 Points
- Artificer Armor standard (2+)
- God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
- Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
- Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.
- Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
- Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.


Captain Cato Sicarius: 
- 185 points
- Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
- Weapons still the same
- Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
- May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
- Warlord Trait: Rites of Battle

Tigirius: 
- 165 points
- +1 Wound
- Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
- ML3
- Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
- Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
- Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
- Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

Cassius: 
- Zealot
- All equipment the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Telion: 
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules

Sergeant Chronus: 
- -20 points
- +1LD
- His vehicle gains It Will not Die

Khan: 
- -35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
- Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
- Furious Charge
- If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
- Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
- Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Vulkan: 
- The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
- Lost Digital Weapons
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Shrike: 
- 185 points
- Stealth
- Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
- Lost Fleet
- Weapons stayed the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Lysander: 
- +30 Points
- No more Bolter Defenses
- Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
- Same wargear
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor: 
- +1 Attack
- Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuse that the Chapter Banner gives.
- Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
- Same Wargear and points
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Helbrect: 
- 180 points
- +1 WS
- Rites of Valor - Gone
- Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assualt Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
- Sword of the High Marshalls is the same
- Legacy of Dorn (+D3 attack on the charge) same

Grimaldus: 
- 185 Points
- -1 BS
- +1 Wound
- -1 Attack
- It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End"
- Zealot
- Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
- Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.

Emperor's Champion: 
- Uses HQ Slot
- 140 Points
- 2+/4++
- Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
- Combat Stances:
Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy
Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
- Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)

Pretty much, it's just confirming a buncha stuff.

[Chris]

Yup...

I can't help that choosing Ultramarines were a bad choice as a Progenitor for my new DIY chapter...

And that BT's have been bent over and ram raided... Sucks!

[Narric]

I put it into a spoiler, as my post is rather large.....

Strikeforce is the replacement for the Battleforce but instead a "starter army" box built around a theme of some kind. So more of starter box than the current Battleforce is. Every army will get one eventually that will be named after something relevant to that army (example: Wraithhost for Eldar).

These probably won't be the most efective starter sets, meaning new players will be forced to purchase more expensive kits. Its also a smack in the face, ass the Battleforces shouldn't be replaced, as they're perfect for experienced players to start a new army, or add to a pre-existing one, as intended.

Also the fact its based on a theme, is lame, as the SMurf Battleforce = Tactical, BA = Assault, Ravenwing = Mounted. The only army style not really represented is Terminator/Veteran.

Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.

I don't like this -_- This outclasses Tau Seeker Missiles, which would potentially be able to do the exact same thing.

Warlord Traits - Only Chart for the Codex 

Spoiler

1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn. (Sicarius has this one!)
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single frienly unit from Codex: Space Marines may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.

1. Why?
2. Sounds cool, thats about it.....
3. Pointless if you're a Ultramarine player.....
4. Why isn't this the standard SR for Captains and Chapter Masters?
5. Why?
6. I think this is mis-labeled. Champion Slayer would make more sense to me. The trait itself is ok....

Chapter Tactics 
Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

Homebrew = Successor in a way Kid of works, as in my mind, successor chapters often build from tactics of their parent chapters.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME 
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Ok, I cant complain about this for BTs. only downside is our Character are predominantly Indepedent, making them easy to pick off by Sniper fire.

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: 

Spoiler

this detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.

Nice to know there is some sort of shackle on Ultramrine players. This is a genuinely surprising developement if it is true.

White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 

Spoiler

Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.

Isn't Hit & Run redundant with Combat Tactics? the boost to Jink Saves and Hammer of Wrath is cool.

Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 

Spoiler

Bolter Drill - Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
Siegemasters - Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Imperial Fists seem to be more reliable than Ultras in terms of shooting.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 

Spoiler

The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

I like this. I can easily see people creating Mechanicum lists as counts as Iron Hands ^_^

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 

Spoiler

Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Astisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Flame weapons used for destroying Armour? Uhm, i think somebody got mixed up in the Design department.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME 

Spoiler

Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

Scouting and Stealthy Marines? Cool.

I love how some rules specify the re-rolls MUST be taken. Who are these strange people who choose not to, forget to do their re-rolls?

COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics.

So no mix-y-matching of chapters? I can deal with that

Black Templars: + Gains / - Losses (might not be a complete list)

Lost

- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

gained

+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same

- I personally found Vows awkward. It didn't feel like something that should have been done. Having set abilities for a BT army, is leagues simpler.
- The lose of the differing chaplains is unfortunate. I personally find it strange that they WEREN'T included.
- Sword Brethran are Sternguard in my eyes anyway
- Storm Shield Assault squads were OP
- Righteous Zeal was a btich to remember and use properly
- PotMS didn't make sense as an Upgrade
- I can't really complain about all the stuff BTs have access to. I guess its a case of you don't know what you have until you lose it?
- Wait, Sword Brother Option is Crusader Squad? So Sword Brethan are like those Space Wolf Characters then?

Marneus Calgar:
- So can Calgar use two Doctrines, or does he allow for two doctrines to be used?
- Again, UMs have a couple shackles. However, being able to choose out of three is a little bit cheeky, even if it is random each game.


Tigirius: 
Why is a Librarian a better Astropath than an Astropath?

Khan: 
Mounted SMurfs arestill in. Sweet!

Shrike: 
Losing Fleet isn't as bad, becuase he can use his Jump Pack in the Assault Phase. Thats a garaunteed 12" charge range, right?

Lysander: 
Marines don't have Morale Check due to ATSKNF right? and Marines rarely ever get pinned, so isn't that icon a bit redundant?

Emperor's Champion: 
- Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean) - Redundant Wording -_-;

[Chris]

Art work AHOY!

Standard


Limited Editions







I'm holding out on hope that the Black Templar's one will be different. Its looks similar style, but doesn't have the title banner like the others, instead it has the other chapters icons... Odd...
Taken straight from Bolter and Chainsword

[Begel Dverl]

Art work AHOY!

Standard