Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!

[Narric]

Gotta love how the new "Commander" model is just a redesign of the "Cato Sicarius" captain from AoBR Just has a Combi-Grav gun to spice things up

I find the Combi-weapons of the Sternguard highly ammusing, as once I showed Icer these:

Spoiler

Combi-weapons produced by Anvil Industry under the name "Lance Carbine"

I believe his response was how impracticle such a setup was. This sorta proves that in wargaming, nothing is impracticle, and possibly that GW is copying Anvils' designs

All in all, these kits are not very inspiring to me.

[Begel Dverl]

Is it me or do the Grav-Weapons look like they use the gun tubing from Necron Immortals?

[Wargamer]

Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury?

[salamut2202]

Grav Pistol
Grav Rifle
Grav Cannon
Grav Amp

Bolt Pistol
Bolt gun
Storm Bolter
Hurricane Bolter
Heavy Bolter
Combi-weapons
(non standard space marine bolt weapons)
Combi-bolters
Psycannon
Vulcan Mega-bolters
Avenger bolt cannon

Heck, there's more variety of imperial fusion, flamer and plasma technology than gravaton weaponry and one of the grav weapons aren't even weapons!

[crisis_vyper]

Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury?

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury?

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:

Yes, and the worst part is that the model for it is stupid.

[Tactical Genius]

Is it me or are there now more Grav-weapons than boltguns in your typical Space Marine armoury?

Is it me or are there more Marines within Marines than Marines so that they could Marine a Marine?  :derp:

i acctualy quite like them. and the fluff needs to evolve or else the game will become stagnant.
Yes, and the worst part is that the model for it is stupid.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

But the whole point of the imperium is that it is technologically stagnant. The least they could do is come up with more than "suddenly, a wild STC appears! Its super effective!".

[Tactical Genius]

what do you sugest jayne? how would you add new units to sm codex withoit these complaints. ay the end of the day from a game progression and unfortubatly we all need new fun units to keep it fresh with a new codex. theres no point in having a new codex ifyou dont get fun bew toys.

[Narric]

what do you sugest jayne? how would you add new units to sm codex withoit these complaints. ay the end of the day from a game progression and unfortubatly we all need new fun units to keep it fresh with a new codex. theres no point in having a new codex ifyou dont get fun bew toys.

Allow me to point to the old "TODex" project run on this very forum.

Near every unit included was something that used an existing kit, or challenged the player to actually do some work to their army to get the best build. The only exception would be the Special Characters, which were mostly fan-made characters with completely fan-made rules and wargear.

The Dex would have been on-par with every GW produced Dex, and didn't need new models to use.

GW uses new Codexi as an EXCUSE to make new ridiculous kits. They skewer their own sales, by making Big Machines and Monsters, which younger children WHO OFTEN DON'T CARE FOR THE GAME ITSELF will only want because they're Big Machines & Monsters.

And as Jayne said, they could at least create some sort of believable piece of backstory for the new unit that isn't just:

"suddenly, a wild STC appears! Its super effective!".

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

The argument for how to introduce these new units is simple. Look at the Predator Annihilator. Of I remember correctly, that came about because a group of Space Wolves were cornered and needed tanks that could take care of tanks, so they strapped a bunch of lascannons to Predators. Instead of "A wild STC appears" they could try creating an actual need for the new units in a situation and then branch out from there.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Forexample, the stalker/hunter. They need an AA unit in 6th, good reason to get one, even if the rules we have seen so far are stupid, the unit is justified. The centurions suits however, are somebody saying"you know what would be awesome? If the Space Marines had Hazard Battle suits!". There is no justification for them.

[Chris]

There is no justification for them THAT WE KNOW OF. None of us have read the fluff yet and we are only speculating that it will be a "Wild STC"... This is the downside of the rumour mills, we get some people who simply can't accept that the basic canon is shifting and new stuff is either being created or re found and so are therefore jumping to conclusions which they then use to judge GW... Its a joke!

Over the last wave of releases, we have seen drastic shifts, Necrons have become almost human in the way they work. This has introduced huge versatility, Imperial Guard have been enriched and loads of other stuff have coming out. Just because Stagnation has been the platform for the last 5 editions of 40k doesn't mean that something could happen. When the 5th edition rules came out, people were commenting on how Space Marines were becoming more seperate and autonomous rather than simple point and destroy weapons. Perhaps we could be seeing this unfold more in the new rules...

So rather than just have people slating new things on alleged reasons for introduction, how about to wait and see what GW do, and then judge them... Lets return this conversation to the actual Rumours... I'm just compiling a list of all of the so far and I'll stick it up soon... 

[Narric]

And what will you say if our guesses and assumptions are in fact true?

[Chris]

BIG GIANT COMPILATION POST

GENERAL RULES:
Veteran Sergeants are an upgrade again.
Can't use Special Characters from other Chapters or mix Chapters in a detachment. (further clarification needed)
Space Marines have their own Warlord Traits.

WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:
There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)
Relics are not Chapter-specific.

NEW WEAPONS:
Grav weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Grav weapons wound the target based on their Armor Save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a Hull Point.

GRAV WEAPONS
Grav Pistol: Range 12" AP:2, Concussive
Grav Rifle: 18" salvo 2/3 AP:2, Concussive
Grav Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5 AP:2, Concussive

Grav Amp: Re-roll failed To-Wound and Armor Penetration rolls for Grav weapons.

Grav-Pistols and Grav-Rifles are available to all units that haves access to Pistol upgrades and Special Weapons, respectively.
Grav-Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) - 60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - 48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire -Able to split fire.
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane

CURRENT WEAPONS:
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - is now 24" Rapid-Fire
Shotguns are S4 Assault 2

CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS (Chapter Traits seem to also apply to vehicles unless otherwise noted):
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:
Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault - The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).

MARNEUS AUGUSTUS CALGAR:
Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits. Calgar rolls 3x on the Warlord Traits and rerolls any duplicates.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.

VARRO TIGURIUS:
Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.
Costs 165 points (down from 230 points).
Tigurius has the same stats.

ORTAN CASSIUS:
5 points more expensive.

CATO SICARIUS:
15 points cheaper.
Grants a +1 to Reserves rolls and no longer seizes the initiative on a 5 or 6.

TORIAS TELION:
Telion has the same points cost.
?Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.

ANTARO CHRONUS:
Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.


SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:
Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons. (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook) get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.

VULKAN HE'STAN:
Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.
Is still 190 points.
No longer makes Thunder Hammers become Mastercrafted.


RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:
They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.

KAYVAAN SHRIKE:
Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.
?


WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.
Kor'Sarro Kahn costs 125 points.
Moondraken costs 25 points.


IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:
Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with Bolters (It works on every Bolter on page 56 of the Rulebook.).
Devastators and Centurions have the Tank Hunters USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.

DARNATH LYSANDER:
Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.
Lysander has the same stats.

PEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.
Costs 186 points (11 point increase).
Kantor keeps his 12" +1A bubble
Kantor now has W4 and A4


IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:
All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah


BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:
"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" - Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.
The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons or Power Fists, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).

HELBRECHT:
Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.
Helbrecht does not get Orbital Bombardment
Helbrecht now has W4 and A4

GRIMAULDUS:
Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the It will not Die USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).


HQ UNITS:

CHAPTER MASTER:
Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.

CAPTAIN:
Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-8 man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.
Captain is now 90pts

CHAPLAIN:
There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.

LIBRARIAN:
They use the Psychic Powers out of the Rulebook.

MASTER OF THE FORGE:
Now has the It Will Not Die USR.

HONOR GUARD:
10 points cheaper per Marine. Now 25 points.
Honour Guard retain Artificer Armour and Power Weapons

COMMAND SQUADS:
Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor

ELITES UNITS:

STERNGUARD VETERANS:
3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Grav weapons.

VANGUARD VETERANS:
Have been moved from the Fast Attack section to the Elites section.
Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.

TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:
Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
Points costs for either type of Terminator otherwise unchanged.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.

TECHMARINES:
No news to report.

ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

LEGION OF THE DAMNED:
Legion Of the Damned are cheaper and all of their shooting ignores cover.

TROOPS UNITS:

TACTICAL SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Grav-Rifle as a Special Weapon option.

SCOUT SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.

FAST ATTACK UNITS:

ASSAULT SQUADS:
Assault Marines are 17pts.

BIKE SQUADS:
4 points cheaper per Marine.

ATTACK BIKES:
Attack Bikes are 45pts.

SCOUT BIKES:
Scout Bikes still have their mines.

HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:

DEVASTATOR SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine.
Flakk Missiles can be bought for +10pts.

DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-Cannon and Grav-Amp

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:
Unchanged in rules and points cost.

VEHICLES:

RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:
No news to report.

DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

STORMRAVEN:
Same point cost.

STORMTALON:
No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:
Land Speeders have the same points costs.
Land Speeder Typhoons are 75pts.

LAND SPEEDER STORM:
The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.

PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:
Predator Destructor is 95pts
Predator Annihilator is 140pts.

VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:
No news to report.

WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:
20 points cheaper.
Now 65 points.

STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire
Able to split fire.
Does NOT have Interceptor.

HUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Does NOT have Interceptor.

LAND RAIDER:
Passenger Capacity - 10

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:
Passenger Capacity - 12

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
?Passenger Capacity - 16