Codex: Space Marine Up for Pre-Order!

[Railgun Convention]

I suspect failed armour penetration rolls is irrespective of whether it is a flame weapon. Although that would be OP.

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.

- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.

- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.

- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.

Right, so a normal Captain means you can do a White Scars First Company list but a White Scars Captain means you can't? That's flat out retarded.

Raven Guard move faster than Dark Eldar Hellions, with a better armour save and, presumably, negligible price difference? Get stuffed.

Ultramarine Tactical Squads, if this and my math is right, now hit with 8 out of every 9 shots? I'm sorry but just no.

And why the FETH does Calgar get 3 Warlord Traits when characters like Eldrad, who are far older and have faced more, don't even get to choose their 1?

[Narric]

Don't forget, you can have whichever chapter tactics you want, provided you claim it to be a "Successor Chaptor"

I find it odd that they've regressed in terms of White Scars. A fully Mounted SM army was one of my plans in the past. The price of such an army was it ultimate downfall to me Would have looked awesome though, and this essentially nerfs an entire Chapter. But then, if you want fully-mounted Marines, go play Dark Angels of course :derp:

Can't compare to Dark Eldar, they're a 5th edition codex, said the Space Marine Player.

Why are Ultramarines better shots than any other (non-ultramarine/successor) marine Chapter, is what I want to know.

Calgar gets Calgar treatment becuase he is Ultramarine, obviously :derp: Why are you even trying to compare him to some other non-space marine character anyway?

Mkoll, I'm not making fun of you, I'm poking fun at the rumoured codex contents. Just saying that now, in case my post implies differently.

[Kur'os]

Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

AP2 Armourbane? These things better cost a damn fortune.

I completely agree.  It sounds like a knee-jerk unit to cope with the serious impact that flyers/FMCs have had upon the game.  Just one of these seems like an easy button to completely shut down an enemy's airspace.  (Not that it was really needed given their already potent flyers)

On the other side of the coin, the model does look pretty snazzy...  >.>;;

-Kur'os

[crisis_vyper]

Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

I have the 'Preferred Ennemy' rules against Space Marines of any kind. The more Marines I see on the table, the more happier I am in crushing their dreams.

That saying these rumours are meant to be taken with salt.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

Though I am genuinely excited about finally getting a BT update, I still dread the power armor tsunami that's coming. 

AP2 Armourbane? These things better cost a damn fortune.

I completely agree.  It sounds like a knee-jerk unit to cope with the serious impact that flyers/FMCs have had upon the game.  Just one of these seems like an easy button to completely shut down an enemy's airspace.  (Not that it was really needed given their already potent flyers)

On the other side of the coin, the model does look pretty snazzy...  >.>;;

-Kur'os

But the whole big thing of 6th was "LOOK! FLYERS!" And now, JUST as the Marines roll out they say "Lol, Trolled you bro! Flyers are gone! Useless! What a waste of money!"

[Narric]

Maybe Marines should be the first codex, and then all the Xenos/Non-imperium armies can get the sweet stuff that actually works, and is plled out GWs arse?

Nah.

GW would just Errata the SM codex every release to ensure it keeps beating everything else, or the non Marine armies will just get sucky updates. Or both.

[Chris]

Ok, so my previous post sort of summarised this, but I found all this (I'll stick it in a spoiler as its long), it goes into a bit more detail than my previous post. Same source as before.

Spoiler

The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.

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Tactical Marines are fourteen points each.

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Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.

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IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.

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Both weapons (Anti-Tank weapons on new AA tank) are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.
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Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.

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The only way you get twin-meltas is if you take Vulkan

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The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.

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There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.

Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.

You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.
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The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders".

(Emperors Champion) When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.

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Q) Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?

A) Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Q) Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?

A) No, only bikes.

Q) Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.

A)Those do not exist. That was wish listing.

Q) Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?

A)Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

Q) Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.

A)No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.

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(Sternguard) went down to 22 points.

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(Emperors Champion) has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.

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(Emperors Champion) are only for BT armies.

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Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)

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Bikes are 21 points.

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Q) how big can a crusader squad be?
A)Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.

Q) what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
A)Grimaldus gives Zaelot

Q) what units are restricted to Templars?
A) Only librarians

Q) how do Castellans work?
A)You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.

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1) (Emperors Champion has fighting stances. First one is +2 str and AP2) yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.

2)Yes he is always 2+/4+.

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Q) can castellans/marshals take command squads
A)Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.

Q) can Helbrecht take an honor guard
A)Yes because he is a Chapter Master

Q) what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
A)Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.

Q) which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
A)Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.

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Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.

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(Devestators) went down. Close to Dark Angel book.

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No way to get 2 special (weapons).

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(Grav Weapons) Solid shot and they have concussive.

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Dreads a basically the same.

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All Ultra characters are in. (They are) Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.

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(Chaplains) Two wounds and two attacks (base).

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(Lysander) Yes he still has Eternal Warriors.

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If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.

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(Is it possible for White Scars to run an all bike army) Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

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(Honour Guard) They went down in points. That is their big change.

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(Hunter Missle) S7 AP2 Armourbane.

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(Vanguard vets) They are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.

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Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.

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(Centurions)
WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+

First 3 cost 190 and 60pts for each. Squad can be 3-6 suits

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(Centurions) The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version.

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No Termie command squads.

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(Transport capacity) LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12

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(Lysander Chapter Tactics) Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.

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Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.

[The Man They Call Jayne]

It sounds like the whole damn codex has been wishlisted by who ever wrote the damn thing? Who is getting the blame for this abortion anyway?

[Narric]

14pts for a Tactical Marine that can re-roll failed to hit rolls? ??(`?´)

Q) Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?

A) Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Sounds like White Scars mounted lists are still in.

(Is it possible for White Scars to run an all bike army) Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

I spoke to soon, and who ever wrote this is an idiot. Two Bike Squads are not a full mounted army



So everything got cheaper? Didn't DA have this for them?

[Arguleon-veq]

The re roll misses on Tacs isnt a big deal, run the numbers on it and it still doesnt put them on a par with other firepower units released under 6th so far.

What is a big deal is the Raven Guard army getting stealth for free, the whole army;

6x5 Tacs with Skyfire Missile Launcher
6 Razorbacks with Las/Plas
3 Preds with 2 Las 1 Autocannon
3 Dreads [or any other good shooty elite unit] with Missile/Twin Linked Las
Libby
Skyshield Landing Pad

1750pts

You put the whole army on and around the pad with the walls up, your whole army [because the pad should be big enough] gets a 2+ cover save.

3+ from Fortification, +1 for Stealth.

Add to that; Untill it gets FAQ'd you cant actually ignore cover on vehicles [because they dont take wounds]. Youve got overwhelming firepower that is next to unkillable. If anything did manage to hit your lines you still have the whole issue of it being a nightmare to actually assault up a Skyshield because its so big that when your at the base of it, you cant actually see whats on top of it so you cant charge them.

Now the issue here is as much to do with the Skypad being broken as that doctrine but its this kind of combination that games designers need to look at. Its not like they didnt know about it, Eldar are already abusing it with Wave Serpents.

Raven Guard are brought up in a nasty industrial/mining place, Stealth[Ruins] would have made plenty of sense and still have been very effective but nowhere near as broken as you cant bring your own enormous ruin as part of your army and it doesnt start by giving you a 3+ cover.

[Begel Dverl]

SUDDENLY, MORE PICTURES

Spoiler

 





 

 

 

[Chris]

Love some of the new sternguard. They're a bit too blingy for me, but that's nothing a hobby knife and file can't take care of! Buzzing for the advance orders!

[Begel Dverl]

Love some of the new sternguard. They're a bit too blingy for me, but that's nothing a hobby knife and file can't take care of! Buzzing for the advance orders!

Well, they have to show that they're better than everyone else somehow 

[Thantos]

Love the minis. All great apart from the ones that im pretending dont exist 

Libby is great, but im going to hacksaw off his cherub mascot who is way too freaky to exist anywhere outside of an inquisitors retuine