Core Rulebook Special Rules & Tau Empire (No Wishlisting)

[Narric]

Time a thread like this was struck up for one of the older Codexi, and which better, then Tau, as a vast majority of the Forum do play, or have played Tau, so everyone can have an opinion.

Just to start. This is not a Wish listing Thread. It is for the discussion of how Tau can utilize Special Rules which are now part of the main Rulebook, for all armies to see.

I'll put forward my ideas, and will cascade from there.


JSYK, I will be going trough the Special Rules Alphabetically, which makes things easier for people finding each rule in turn.

This thread also relies on your having a copy of the Rulebook in front of you, otherwise you may struggle contributing.


Acute Senses is something we already have, and many are already devision uses for the new version of this rule. I'm sure there is already a thread for its discussion.

Adamantium Will, in my mind at least, seems like a fluffy SR that an Ethereal might have. These figures, though weak in combat, are mostly certaily strong in resolve. An entire empires politics, and possibly stability rests on the shoulder of this single Caste. Both through training, and possibly social enforcement, the Etheral would posses a firm mind, which can act as a shield for his sholdiers in battle, against Psychic attack (whether they know about it or not. Taus use of "Deny the Witch" needs discussion)

Armourbane Could be a great help to certain weapon systems, such as the Railgun, or possibly one of the suit mounted systems.

Blind could be something for a "Photon/Light" grenade may have. It sounds perfectly reasonable that Fire Warriors would employ means to dissuade enemy assault, without the need of their rifles.

Bulky & Extremely Bulky could be additions to the Stealth Suit and Crisis Suit SR selection (respectivly). Yes, none of our current Transports can carry XV units, but that may change in a future codex.

Concussive is another Weapon system SR that sounds suitable. Possibly a new Weapon system altogether would need to be made, as it can't be used against non-walker vehicles.

Fleshbane I'm on the fence about whether or not could be made fluff for Tau to have/use. Is their any background evidence of Tau using Chemical warfare on the battlefield?

Hammer of Wrath current makes sense on our Battlesuits. We've all seen the Dynamic Entry model/diorama, and I'm sure everybody has their own idea of how it would work. But why don't we now just use a given SR from the rulebook. Much cleaner and everybody is on the same page (literally)

Haywire falls under the Weapon System idea. it may sound more Eldar-y, but surely they have shared technology by this point. They are "Battle Brothers" afterall.

Intercepter and Skyfire sound like great additions to the Hammerheads and Sky Rays.

Another Weapon System addition is Missile Lock. Isn't there a Hammerhead from Forge World with a huge mother of a Missile Pod for a Turret? This sounds like the perfect rule for something like that. And if the Smart Missile Sytem changes to a Blast weapon, thnk of the added potential with those 4 shots being closer together.

Poisoned is a special rule that makes me instantly think of Kroot. It is hardly a stretch of imagination to think of them using poisoned Weapons. GW even gave special Kroot units Poisoned attacks, when they had their Chapter Approved Mercenary List.

*prepares to get brick'd*
Psychic Pilot
*gets brick'd*
Hear me out. A while ago a few of this forum began discussing other racial options for the Tau, one of which being the Nicassar. I'm thinking using one as a vehicle upgrade, and his abilties are defensive and/or use Divination. I dunno, leave a reply to that one, definately.

Shred, sounds perfect for a Battlesuit or Tank mounted weapon system.

Split Fire, simply enough, should be applied to our Target Locks, so the split fire tactic of Yester-dition can be used to full effect again.



And those are all my ideas. Feel free to chip in on my ideas, or submit your own.-

[The Man They Call Jayne]

If a Space Marine isntt Bulky an XV25 can't really be considered Bulky. XV8 though, yes.

Armourbane makes sense.

The Hammerhead Missile Turret isnt that great of a weapon. It is basicly a TL Blast Autocannon. So Missile Lock could help there.

[Unusual Suspect]

It is not a wishlisting thread, but the vast majority of the discussion is about the special rules a new codex could utilize to make for an awesome new Tau Codex? 

Look, this isn't ATT... Wishlisting is somewhat acceptable here.

If this were a thread that actually involved no wishlishing and the Core Rulebook Special Rules, you'd be talking about the special rules our Codex and the various Forgeworld productions provides our army, and the ways they can be shared and utilized to our best advantage.  Acute Senses?  yeah, that's something we can use.  Night Fighting?  You betcha.  ATSKNF?  You'd be mentioning allies, but it'd be legit.

If you're talking about the rules that a 6th edition Tau Codex would have, or should have, utilized to represent the Tau... that's Wishlisting.

So i'm actually contributing, rather than merely complaining...

Adamantine Will is perfect for Ethereals.  It isn't necessary, but it'd be a great touch.  Perhaps only for a special character... say, Aun'shi?

Blind also seems perfectly suited to provide that needed umph necessary to bring Pulse Carbines into "acceptably useful" territory.

Armourbane isn't necessary.  Railguns do some nasty stuff.  I'd rather see something akin to most rumors seen so far, with lines of effect that are reduced by intervening models.

I could see Bulky and Extremely Bulking playing a part in a new Flier in a new Tau Codex, but not really in Devilfish.  It doesn't seem particularly fluffy in the way that a Flier delivering Jetpack-equipped XV suits would be.

Fleshbane I could see on Vespid Neutron Blasters.  Otherwise, Tau are not really the chemical warfare type, barring the large-scale sort of weaponry you might see in Apocalypse.  Universally-applicable toxins just don't seem, in my opinion, to be part of a Tau battleplan.  Ork-specific or Tyranid-specific, maybe...

Hammer of Wrath:  Dynamic Entry is meant as humor, not as a serious addition to Tau fighting doctrine.  Leave the Close Combat to the auxiliaries.

Haywire seems like a good replacement for the EMP tech.  Call it progress, call it mechanics, whatever.

Interceptor and Skyfire make sense for Skyrays, but not in the least (in my mind) for Hammerheads.  Hammerheads are main battle tanks, not Anti-Air.  Skyrays, on the other hand, have Anti-Air as an explicit part of their mission and purpose.

Poisoned makes sense for Kroot.  'nuff said.

Psychic Pilot makes little sense to me.  The Nicassar are, fluff-wise, strictly void assets.  They need not be found fighting the ground war against those foolishly opposed to the Greater Good.

Split Fire makes some sense in regards to replacing the Target Lock for infantry.  It is an ability I find I've missed quite a bit in 6th edition, and even a leadership test gateway wouldn't prevent me from utilizing it in a new codex.

[Narric]

It is not a wishlisting thread, but the vast majority of the discussion is about the special rules a new codex could utilize to make for an awesome new Tau Codex? 

Look, this isn't ATT... Wishlisting is somewhat acceptable here.

If this were a thread that actually involved no wishlishing and the Core Rulebook Special Rules, you'd be talking about the special rules our Codex and the various Forgeworld productions provides our army, and the ways they can be shared and utilized to our best advantage.  Acute Senses?  yeah, that's something we can use.  Night Fighting?  You betcha.  ATSKNF?  You'd be mentioning allies, but it'd be legit.

If you're talking about the rules that a 6th edition Tau Codex would have, or should have, utilized to represent the Tau... that's Wishlisting.

So i'm actually contributing, rather than merely complaining...

I guess I should have thought it through. My main thought was hoping this wouldn't turn into a thread where everyone starts remaking units and wargear. Probably failed that

[Carrelio]

Could we perhaps discuss some of the rules that we, and actual armies have that we could use for purposes of allies?  For instance... Marines cvould benefit from slow and purposeful, hit and run, and night fight, while we could definitely benefit from ATSKNF or fleet from the space marine book.  So not just wishlisting, but things we can actually do now thanks to the allies and independent characters dabbling in eachothers powers.

[knightperson]

There are quite a few USR's that are now granted to every unit in a squad if only one model has them. If we had more independent characters that could take advantage of them, the Tau could bring rules those rules with them even when joining allied units. We only have the two HQ crisis suits, and Shadowsun if she can safely get rid of her drones first, but there are a lot of rules for crisis suits.

By my reading, a shas'o with Vectored Retro Thrusters could grant Hit & Run to entire unit, so you could attach him (or her if we're being fair) to an allied unit to give them hit&run. Hmmm, how about a squad of Space Marine assault marines or even assault terminators? They could get the extra attacks for charging on every one of their assault phases, and would be a lot more difficult to tarpit. VRT could also be used defensively by attaching to a squad that would rather shoot than assault. Broadsides are the obvious choice if you can tolerate the mental image of a crisis suit picking up three broadsides and two drones and jetting away with them, but it could be used for anything else. Pathfinders are a possibility, as are Space Marine Devastators or Eldar Guardians. I'm thinking Hit & Run then Bladestorm the unit they were just fighting. Even better, how about attaching a VRT'O to the big death star unit of Wraithguard? You don't want them in melee if you can avoid it, so why not have an option to get out of melee if a sneaky opponent gets there?

Similarly, there is the option discussed elsewhere around here of the Shas'O with Advanced Stabilization Systems (SAP'O). Slow and Purposeful pathfinders are the main choice, but it could also be applied to broadsides or sniper drone  teams as well as any allied unit that would benefit from it. The sniper drone teams would be an interesting synergy since the drone team would give the SAP'O Stealth and Shrouding in return for the Slow and Purposeful. Even better, and I just now thought of this, how about attaching one to those Eldar snipers with the super duper cover save? I'll have to check the Eldar FAQ to see how that rule is written.

If Shadowsun could just leave her drones in the garage or something, then I think she could bring Stealth and Shrouding to any unit she joins, which could be helpful. Maybe the Eldar Wraithguard again since she has similar range and nastiness guns to theirs?

[Scout Sergeant Mkoll]

If a Space Marine isntt Bulky an XV25 can't really be considered Bulky. XV8 though, yes.

Armourbane makes sense.

Space Marines aren't bulky because their vehicles are specifically designed to carry them. A Devilfish is designed to carry Fire Warriors, not suits, so Bulky is a possibility.

Armourbane, I'm sorry but no. The Hammerhead does not need it, nor do Broadside Railguns. If you can't bring a tank down with S10 AP1 range absurd weapons you're doing something wrong.

Hammer of Wrath current makes sense on our Battlesuits. We've all seen the Dynamic Entry model/diorama, and I'm sure everybody has their own idea of how it would work. But why don't we now just use a given SR from the rulebook. Much cleaner and everybody is on the same page (literally)

Haywire falls under the Weapon System idea. it may sound more Eldar-y, but surely they have shared technology by this point. They are "Battle Brothers" afterall.

Hammer of Wrath on Tau? Sorry, no. You want combat, take allies or Kroot, that's what they're there for.

As for Haywire, as you said, that's Eldar. Eldar aren't exactly famed for sharing technology with the lesser races, no matter how friendly they get. IIRC they already gave Tau some, I can't see them providing any more in the near future.

[Narric]

Ok, perhaps I started this thread off badly, but now I have a slime chance to redeem myself.

Everyone turn you Rulebooks to pages 61-62, and read the Grenades section. Specifically the Defensive Grenades subsection.

Long-cut-short, Tau under the right (or wrong, depending on your playstyle) circumstances, your Fire Warrior units can claim the Stealth Special rule.

How?! I hear you cry.

By simply equiping your Shas'ui with a Photon Grenade. Photon Grenades are classed as Defensive Grenades.

I'll leave you with that, and let you decide if it makes Photon Grenades worth that extra 1pt.


[update]

Another thing I've noticed is something in the "Characters" sectin, right after Grenades.

any character rolling a 6 to hit can allocate the wound themselves, rather than following the normal wound allocation rules.

This can be a great advantage to Broadside units, as we can use the Team LEader to Snipe enemy characters, whilst the others aid with supressing fire. Combine this with Tau Meta-game shifting to Plasma Rifles o9n XV88s instead of the SMS, and you've got a serious case of anti-character.

[Carrelio]

Three things...

First of all a rule point.  The shas'ui alone cannot take this upgrade, it is a squad upgrade.  The EMP can be bought from the armoury as an individual item.

Second a usefulness point... The grenades work at 8 inches away.  Our guns have a rapid fire of 15 inches.  So at the beginning of your enemy's movement phase (assuming you are not insane and placed your fire warriors closer than you need to) he is 15 inches away.  With a 6 inch move he is now 9 inches away... your grenades do not work.

Third a tactical point... Let us assume he has a 12 inch movement (like assault marines or some other jump unit).  He starts 15 inches away, moves 12, and is now 3 inches away set to shoot and charge into cover.  With the grenades you get (lets say you're behind an Aegis defense line and go to ground with your grenades.... damn... 2+) a 2+ cover save... so you lose maybe 1 model to shooting, and then get charged... you are 3 inches away... you might kill 1 marine if you are lucky.  You will get charged.  You now have a full fire warrior squad, and a marine squad that does not get a bonus for charging you... you probably wont win combat... but you probably wont break either.  You just gave the marines a free turn of using your bodies as meat shields from your shooting.  Without the grenades or going to ground, you may lose enough models from the front of your lines to escape the charge all together... and if you do get charged... with all those attacks... you'll be wiped out.  This means a turn of shooting next turn!

Edit: in response to that second point, broadside team leaders do not count as characters only the shas'vre and even that is only if you are really extorting the rules, specifically the part that says for some things you will have to refer to the new rulebook where Shas'vre are characters... our FAQ was clearly done in a hurry.

[Narric]

Three things...

First of all a rule point.  The shas'ui alone cannot take this upgrade, it is a squad upgrade.  The EMP can be bought from the armoury as an individual item.

Second a usefulness point... The grenades work at 8 inches away.  Our guns have a rapid fire of 15 inches.  So at the beginning of your enemy's movement phase (assuming you are not insane and placed your fire warriors closer than you need to) he is 15 inches away.  With a 6 inch move he is now 9 inches away... your grenades do not work.

Third a tactical point... Let us assume he has a 12 inch movement (like assault marines or some other jump unit).  He starts 15 inches away, moves 12, and is now 3 inches away set to shoot and charge into cover.  With the grenades you get (lets say you're behind an Aegis defense line and go to ground with your grenades.... damn... 2+) a 2+ cover save... so you lose maybe 1 model to shooting, and then get charged... you are 3 inches away... you might kill 1 marine if you are lucky.  You will get charged.  You now have a full fire warrior squad, and a marine squad that does not get a bonus for charging you... you probably wont win combat... but you probably wont break either.  You just gave the marines a free turn of using your bodies as meat shields from your shooting.  Without the grenades or going to ground, you may lose enough models from the front of your lines to escape the charge all together... and if you do get charged... with all those attacks... you'll be wiped out.  This means a turn of shooting next turn!

Edit: in response to that second point, broadside team leaders do not count as characters only the shas'vre and even that is only if you are really extorting the rules, specifically the part that says for some things you will have to refer to the new rulebook where Shas'vre are characters... our FAQ was clearly done in a hurry.

Balls, I thought I'd found something useful.

[Carrelio]

Good effort though It is stuff like that we're looking for.